If We Let The Secessionists Go, What Would Their 'Nation' Be Like?

Red states also tend to be pretty rural, and our agriculture is messed up with all the cash crops and subsidies.

Incidentally, do you know how the blue states are doing? I'm pretty sure Michigan is a blue state, as is California, and we've seen some epic funding failures in those states of late.

 

I'm pretty sure most states are in the red. Texas and a handful of other states, usually the ones with oil or other needed resources, are in the black.

But the ones who are the worst are red, and ironically it's these states whose leaders complain about federal government intervention.

I would love to see them do without federal aid. Let them go a year without paying federal taxes, and lose all federal aid. Lets see how long they last handling all of their expenses on their own. I bet states whose leaders took the pledge to never raise taxes would be breaking that pledge pretty quickly.

 

Call the orderlies, dude...the meds are making you hallucinate!

 

Hey...Texas has beer and vodka, too! Moonshine is more a Carolina thing...

 

Well that's one way to understate the inherited but ill-maintained advantages of a state.

Hardworking Cubans, Puerto Ricans, Koreans, Chinese... Americans! And the most important of all: relatively free market-environment. Cali has all of them highly motivated immigrants as well as a highly-skilled working force (UC Berkely, UCLA, Stanford, etc) but the stringent regulation provided much encumberance for its development.

 

Diplomacy, eh? Let's see:

Once Texas successfully succeeded:
No playing world police
No need for paying hundreds of bases abroad
Free trade (zero-import tax) with some Asian as well as European countries
No muslims pissed off at Texas no more
...

Yea, diplomacy, tell me about it!

Oh but, it has to constantly worry about kicking the butt of the liberal neighbors up north, though! (New Mexico is more blue than purple, right?)

 

Even so, I don't think the New Confederate States would do all that well.

 

Then there is a problem, huge one: reality goes on regardless of what you think.

 

The thread concerns itself with what that 'reality' may be. What people "think", is exactly what I wanted them to opine about.

If you don't want to participate in this... of course, there are other threads.

 

I'm sure you're mistaken here. In fact, not even close. Texas leads US cattle production with just over 12% of the nations total. Florida comes in at 17th with 1.86%

http://www.cattlerange.com/cattle-graphs/all-cattle-numbers.html

Florida does however have the largest cattle ranch (cow/calf) Deseret Ranches. But it's largest only if you include Ranch COOP's .

 

IMO, Despite all the secession and 'kick em out' hyperbole, Washington would not let Texas go without a fight. The economic consequences for both the US and the new Republic would be devastating. But were Texas ever to actually secede amicably, without military intervention, the US would be the first to climb the capital steps in Austin looking for trade agreements.

 

Oh Texas is not exactly in the Black. We have debt. Our state government debt ($1,577 per resident) debt is relatively low compared to some other states, but the greater part of our debt is local ($7,505 per capita) ,and growing. 60 million dollar high school football stadiums probably have something to do with that.

 

The secessionist states would likely form a confederation. It would be the typical disaster of confederation style government, looser than the EU since the states would grant it far less power and far worse since the states would be unlikely to grant the central government any sort of permanent funding mechanism, which would make its operations somewhat whimsical as it continually awaits voluntary grants from the states to fund its operations, funds that are likely to come in fits and starts as the various states assert their power of the purse whenever the central government proposes to do something they might find even mildly objectionable. The government shutdown of the past few weeks would be a regular part of the new confederacy.

There would certainly be no central bank or common currency so the states would need to rely on some other currency, like the $US, or private bank notes or specie, i.e. silver and gold for all transactions. There are serious problems with all of these that would leave the states extremely vulnerable to the money arbitragers, especially if you consider how much of their debt is held by outsiders. If the states did not quickly join the treaties on international trade banking and finance the US and almost every other nation would be legally obliged to cut off all banking and financial ties. It might happen quickly, but given the ignorance of many successionists, the ability of many states to resume normal trade banking and finance relations with the rest of the world is likely to be held up for weeks and weeks by idiotic debate.

Many red states would quickly face similar problems that Greece faced a few years ago, massive debt held by foreigners that they are suddenly unable to refinance and so must come up with the cash to pay off or default. A sovereign debt default never goes away, the creditors will get their money one way or another. The conditions the secessionist states would face in a default would destroy their economies for decades. Texas might have some problems rolling over its $40Billion state debt but its municipalities will have far larger problems paying down their debt, which is about $200Billion, when the state's banks lose their access to the Federal Reserve, and the dollars their local economy need are no longer so easy to acquire.

Without access to the Federal Reserve, Fannie and Freddie and other Federal financial operations that provide capital many banks would suddenly find themselves severely undercapitalized, unable to raise capital, make loans or pay depositors. Private operators could step into the breach, but will not do so immediately because the risk is far too high. They will wait until the dust settles and then move in like vultures on a corpse.

Secession would be the one of the best things to ever happen for Wall Street. Financiers would end up with all the existing tax revenues of entire states. If the people in those states want anything from their government they will have to pay for it with new taxes.

 

"Very well", *picks up the fedora from the table* "I shall show myself the way out of this thread."

 

there would not be any nations
for they would gather together and overthrow the current u.s. govt and merge it with mexico and Canada
happy trails

 

Interesting, but i don't think they have the following to achieve that.

 

sure there is
only takes a single genius to rally them
you are not such a man
but you will be rallied by him
g.w. were he alive would say I was not such genius as he
love you

 

PROVIDED you were/are such a man you would need supernatural power & THE GOD-ORDAINED ability to do so. nothing less would work. america in her present state is looks just about hopeless. but perhaps GOD has something better in mind, ... after tshtf.

even so: JESUS IS THE LORD over all.

 

>>> maybe it is best you stay off the internet, ... at least until you learn how to TRULY LOVE.
i say this being as in over ten years on various forums you have made ONE friend: and him you
betrayed with the unloving scorn of silence. ie/ignored, after slight disputes or disagreement.

i befriended you & defended you, ... then you return that with the evil of silence.
there is a lesson in this you need to learn well: do NOT betray friends & brethren in Christ.
GOD will never honor your words as long as you do so.

 

well on paper secession looks appealing for states like Texas considering they put more into the federal system than what they take out of it, plus as is their economy by itself is about the size of Australia's.. but something to consider is once you're out of the union you are out of its free trade zone, which in the end would have a devastating impact on their economy. The federal government does have a responsibly to maintain the interest of staying in the union, the day inevitably come when the US is a thing of the past

where we are today however, I do not see secession being of better interest for any state