If You Where In Public Place And Heard Shots Fired What Would Prefer To Be Armed With

Nothing like a good gun in the hands of a good man who can keep his head under pressure!
Blood pressure/adrenalin aside, sounds like ya done good.

 

My son and I this afternoon tested two rounds .40 S&W and one .45 ACP against a Class II vest.

These are the results.

These are the recovered bullets.



Left to right, .45 ACP Silvertip JHP, .40 Silvertip JHP, .40 FMJ.

The vest after being cut open.



The .40 round which went through the vest though deflected to the right, had this been worn that would have been a left collarbone penetration.



This is a COM shot of the .45, though the didn't penetrate the vest it was punched 3" through the 1/2" plywood target board.



And this is the .40 FMJ which while like the .45 ACP was stopped punched through the 1/2" plywood target holder by 2".

 

I would approach the shooter and point towards the "no guns allowed" decal on the front door and chew his ass out.

 

I love that answer. We’ll both go after the sonofa....

 

I'm sure the shooter would appreciate that and then put a few rounds into your body as a thank you.

 

It's not that hard.

 

One of my carry options is a Keltec PMR-30. While penetration of the .22WRM is a lot better than you would think, I doubt it would penetrate any kind of armor. However in a 30-round hail of bullets, it would probably play hell with some of the unprotected parts of a bad guy, and damn sure keep him distracted for awhile...
Super lightweight piece, even fully loaded.

 

Ouch... but beats not having a vest.
Nice to see some one doing their own testing.
As I always say, knowledge is power.

Depending on what you are using to push the .45, consider acquiring some .45 SMC hard cast and HPs. Be sure your gun can handle the rounds... min test is if you can shoot +P safely.

 

My .45 is an Officers ACP which has something like a 2 .75 barrel which is why I use the Winchester Silvertips with 185 grain tips.

My theory is anything with more power behind the tip will just become more muzzle flash with a barrel that short.

 

Yeah, while I have never noticed the .45 SMC, from DoubleTap, having excessive flash, the round is not likely to provide much advantage over the 45 ACP in an under 3” barrel, and would likely result in higher level recoil and muzzle flip over a longer barrel.
It’s been a bit since I used to carry a Springfield MicroCompact .45 acp (required a lot of tuning to get the reliability I required) and did testing for my EDC round for it. I settled on Gold Dot and Hornady XTP for the short barrel trade off, both giving good accuracy (thinking shot placement over expansion reliability), both also expanded well in my tests, but...short barrel.
That gun came with 6rd mags flush, but, the Springfield but I found both Chip MCCormick and Kimber had high quality 7 rd mags that were very reliable, for it, giving the Kimber mags a slight edge...
One of those seller’s regrets, but a now a judge friend carries it for his EDC, including under his robes in court.

 

She actually said that to you? That's pretty brazen.

 

I found the Officers ACP has zero feed problems with the Winchester Silvertips.

Tried Federal I believe they where named Hydroshok and while they had the same profile as Silvertips they wouldn't feed worth crap.

 

With the 1911 there are a number of things the can impact reliability; the design is a sort of engineering balancing act (slide mass, recoil spring wt, mag design, feeding ramp, etc.) for reliability with the standard load 230gr fmj cartridge. Most 1911s are very reliable with the ball ammo, but specialty SD ammo, compact designs (not all made equal), mag design, all can have an impact on reliability. While any semi auto may like to eat some ammo more that others, the OTB 1911 often may exhibit magnified differences in reliability of one meal over another. There are more variables involved in cartridge design feed reliability than just the profile. Many semi autos can exhibit preferences of one manufacturer’s ammo over another, a proclivity magnified in 1911s.
That you suggested Silver Tips are more reliable in your 1911 than Hydro Shocks, suggests a couple things... first you performed some level of reliability testing (many often don’t), and second, you let the gun decide what you should carry for EDC defense of life (wishes and slick advertising don’t work here). That suggests you gave serious attention to your choices for SD; it likely hints you have gone beyond just ammo selection in attending to those elements that increase your potential to survive the unexpected.
Too many people use one type of ammo for range work, but carry the next advertised best SD magic ammo for their EDC without performing adequate reliability testing and then, to boot, don’t do failure drills for the potential things don’t work as advertised.
Personally, If I was carrying a 1911 for my EDC and it only exhibited perfect reliability with 230gr FMJ, but was flawless with that round, I wouldn’t hesitate carrying 1911 for SD loaded those cartridges... over 100 years of history shows it as a well proven SD round.
BTW, I run into many that believe no matter what they feed a revolver, revolvers are always reliable. For those, I would offer a deal of a lifetime on land in Florida.

 

On my range, when training I always use the same ammo as I carry.

Learning how to react and respond with a firearm requires one to be able to understand how the firearm will react, and that requires the person being trained to use the exact ammo they will carry with.

Anything else is saving pennies while pissing dollars down the drain.

Sadly what very few people who carry understand is the firearm carried must become part of ones body when it hits the fan, changing ammo while training to save a few dollars on the range does not play into that program.

As an instructor I have heard more than once "I carry this very good and well recommended on the net self defense ammo," but at the range I use what I bought from "Cheaper Than Dirt," to practice with.

Why, because the so called self defense ammo is considered too expensive to practice with.

And most of them have never shot a round out of the $65+ box of self defense ammo they bought.

That's a good way to get a jam and be killed.

 

You get it, and sounds like you live it.
I never understood the “saving pennies” aspect of things when it comes to potentially saving a life. When, sick, I don’t go to the Vet (though my X probably would say I probably should). Your potential for saving your or someone else’s life is as good as what you invest in your tools, knowledge, and training in my opinion. There’s no magic pill like for losing weight like that advertised for losing weight without having to change your lifestyle, understand what you consume does to you, and become have super body from a pill bottle... if there were, the military would be first in line to buy.
Me...I am still looking for that Hollywood gun shop; the one that sells guns that never miss, even shooting while doing gymnastics, hit the target at any distance, drop any game of any size, blow up cars, and that never run empty.

 

Little old Arcadia has enough violent crime. Brevard...for me, no thanks. Seems like every time I turn on the TV, Fort Myers has yet another, shooting.

They seem to control what makes the news here. A few weeks ago, i was on my front porch in the afternoon time and heard something like 15 rapid shots, about a mile distant, in a residential area. Never heard anything but the shots.

 

I am old and had a great life. I hope I am never tested but this guy set the standard. Stephen Willeford is my hero.
https://thefederalist.com/2017/11/07/hero-stopped-texas-gunman-couldnt-stopped-without-ar-15/

For me, most likely my P365. Hopefully, my second mag would not be needed.

 

M 14.

Ar 15 is not high powered enough

30 caliber or bust

I added my own ideas to the scenario.

I'm assuming that i am hearing shots. The people who can get away have or are hiding from the shooter and it is those people who need protection. I have escaped myself acquired my weapon, am still hearing shooting and am morally obligated to hunt down the shooter and i am not expecting law enforcement soon enough. I also don't want to be mistaken as the shooter so i called 911 and told them who i was, with a description and what i am preparing to do.

 

What? Nobody suggested they’d respond with a magic wand?

 

Without further details- I think a handgun will likely be more beneficial in more circumstances.

Whether you're trying to get out alive or trying to stop the shooter, a rifle is going to make you a bigger target if he sees you first. Handgun wont draw as much attention.

 

All the curses that would actually help are unforgivable..

 

If you hear the shots then someone is in all probability dead

I would follow the advice of the FBI https://www.fbi.gov/about/partnersh...ponding-to-an-active-shooter-crisis-situation

This video though says it better

 

Even more of a reason to be able to fight back.

Perfect example of what gun free zones really are, killing fields.

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More anti-gun pap using children as props, very sick.

This guy has a much better idea.

 

More anti-gun pap.

This guy has a much better idea.

[/QUOTE]
Meantime back in reality land

The FBI have done extensive research on what they call “active shooter events and personally I would believe them over some “sheriff” who is elected (you guys have some weird **** law enforcement system)

https://www.orlandoweekly.com/Blogs...is-incredibly-wrong-about-good-guys-with-guns

 

If you had done a bit of research on the subject you would have discovered the FBI and most law enforcement agencies in the U.S. have updated their active shooter responses including those to be followed by law abiding to flee or fight, hiding is no longer considered a safe method of protecting oneself, and Ivey's video matches that update.

By the way the FBI video you linked to is over 7 years old and is now considered outdated.

I would take Sheriff's Ivey's training and advice long before I would take the advice from a newspaper writer working for an anti-gun weekly.