Illegal Abortion

Discussion in 'Abortion' started by Bowerbird, May 4, 2022.

?

What should be the punishment following an illegal abortion

  1. The woman should not be punished

    2 vote(s)
    66.7%
  2. The woman should be charged under a criminal statute

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. The abortionist should be charged with manslaughter

    1 vote(s)
    33.3%
  4. If a woman has self induced an abortion she should be charged with manslaughter

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Nothing should happen because there will be no illegal abortions

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. The man who got her pregnant should be responsible for paying for health care issues arming from the

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    77,217
    Likes Received:
    62,190
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    This is not a “maybe” but an inevitability with restriction on legal abortion. So a woman is admitted to the Emergency Department with Sepsis following an illegal abortion. My question is

    What should happen next?

    Should she be charged with manslaughter? Should she be denied healthcare?

    Already in America there are women in prisons having been convicted of manslaughter due to a miscarriage, not abortion, miscarriage

    The man who got her pregnant should be responsible for paying for health care issues arising from the illegal abortion

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/brittany-poolaw-manslaughter-miscarriage-pregnancy/
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 5, 2022
  2. GrayMan

    GrayMan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2010
    Messages:
    6,996
    Likes Received:
    2,701
    Trophy Points:
    113
    They took illegal substances and knowingly damaging a person for life assuming they didn't manage to kill them... Cannot say I have much sympathy for her in that case. Still, not an abortion, just sever negligence; like drunk driving.
     
    kazenatsu likes this.
  3. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    77,217
    Likes Received:
    62,190
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    And your proof that these substances were teratogenic? There is more proof of the teratogenic effects of alcohol - do you want to charge every woman who has a drink while pregnant with manslaughter?
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2022
    Kranes56, Lucifer and FoxHastings like this.
  4. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2014
    Messages:
    54,981
    Likes Received:
    20,329
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I would have to ask why abortion was banned....is it banned because it's considered murder?

    If it's murder then women would have to be charged with murder if they have an abortion.


    If one hires someone to kill for them they are as guilty as the person who actually committed the murder ( abortion).
    So both the woman and the person who performs the abortion would be tried for murder.

    OH, how the courts will fill up as evil people will "tattle " on women......

    OH, how the Welfare will grow as more poor kids are born and more women who may have children end up in jail for life.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2022
    Bowerbird likes this.
  5. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Messages:
    28,007
    Likes Received:
    8,764
    Trophy Points:
    113
    When she is on illegal drugs, which are already illegal. We've been over this before. When a woman has sky high levels of drugs in her system, it's not fair to assume the drugs were the likely cause of the miscarriage?

    Usually these "miscarriages" are LATE into the pregnancy, when she gets prosecuted.
    (And by the way, spontaneous miscarriages are much less likely to happen at that stage in the pregnancy, so once again, it was probably the drugs)
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2022
  6. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Messages:
    28,007
    Likes Received:
    8,764
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No "proof" is needed. Just a likely causal relationship.

    This is a pregnant woman using illegal drugs that she knows are dangerous to her pregnancy and the future wellbeing of her baby.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2022
  7. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2020
    Messages:
    18,427
    Likes Received:
    17,528
    Trophy Points:
    113
    BB, I have some questions.

    1. The didn't pull meth use from the sky. I have some concerns about that. What about pregnant women that drink alcohol, smoke (legally or illegally) and/or eats bad foods? Are we going to criminalize all pregnant females if their baby isn't born absolutely healthy and perfect?

    2. Why would the male contributor be responsible for a woman's medical bills if she develops complications from an illegal abortion? I can understand that argument if he was the reason she sought an illegal abortion or he performed it himself, but notwithstanding some thing more than a sperm donation, she holds the power in either direction.

    3. Orange Jesus said that there should be some kind of punishment for women having abortions. Given his proclivities toward extra-marital affairs, I'm sure he's financed quite a few abortions in his miserable lifetime. But, I digress. I think the reason this is coming to a head now is because of him and we already know his cultists are going to just smile and nod and beat the rest of us over the head for not adoring him.

    This basically means you aren't going to get any rational or reasonable responses. It's all knee-jerk sentimalism designed to give the impression they care about "those precious little lives" (but to hell with them once the umbilical cord is snipped).
     
    Bowerbird likes this.
  8. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    77,217
    Likes Received:
    62,190
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    A. She didn’t have “sky high” levels and
    B. There is zero research showing that the drugs she had taken caused the miscarriage and you have yet to prove that it did
     
    Kranes56 likes this.
  9. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    77,217
    Likes Received:
    62,190
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    And you have shown no causal relationship
     
  10. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    77,217
    Likes Received:
    62,190
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    I guess MJ I am just sick of reading “her choice her fault” as if the man has no responsibility whatsoever
     
  11. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2018
    Messages:
    32,605
    Likes Received:
    31,023
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    You want the man to pay but you don't want the man to have a say in whether she has an abortion or not.... Screw that sexist noise
     
  12. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2018
    Messages:
    32,605
    Likes Received:
    31,023
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Such an unfit drug abusing would be mother should be sterilized.
     
  13. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    77,217
    Likes Received:
    62,190
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Did I say that? Perhaps HE was the one forcing her into an abortion by refusing to support the pregnancy? I am saying make it equal - he has at least fifty percent responsibility for the pregnancy so up to him to sponsor the abortion and all the other healthcare costs
     
  14. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    77,217
    Likes Received:
    62,190
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    And the drug abusing fathers?
     
  15. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2020
    Messages:
    18,427
    Likes Received:
    17,528
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Everything is the woman's fault.

    Examples...

    • Men wrote the various bibles and it's always a woman that doomed mankind for all eternity.
    • When men have affairs, the woman is said "not able to keep her man happy".
    • Women that are raped are said to have caused it in some way (what was she wearing? she led him on. Etc.).
    • Victims of domestic violence are typically ignored (until they end up in an ICU or dead).
    • Females are oversexualized very early (ex. when my daughter was a toddler I could not find a single one-piece swimming suit. Stores only carried bikinis so we had to order some online).
    • Females are "dolled up" and judged and rated on their physical attractiveness above all other qualities about their intelligence, morals, values, heart and soul.


    The part I'm sick of hearing is how "backward" other country's men treat their women. Outside of not requiring burkas, we have absolutely no room to throw that stone.
     
    Bowerbird and FoxHastings like this.
  16. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2014
    Messages:
    54,981
    Likes Received:
    20,329
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So you want a man to be able to tell a woman she has to have an abortion ..................
     
    Bowerbird likes this.
  17. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2018
    Messages:
    32,605
    Likes Received:
    31,023
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Sure if they're out there producing illegitimate bastards.
     
  18. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2014
    Messages:
    54,981
    Likes Received:
    20,329
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Oh, look, how sweet...calling those PRECIOUS LIVES "bastards"....
     
    Bowerbird and Lucifer like this.
  19. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2018
    Messages:
    32,605
    Likes Received:
    31,023
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Are you feelings hurt? It's an English word in the dictionary with a certain definition you might want to look it up.
     
  20. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2011
    Messages:
    29,216
    Likes Received:
    4,100
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    I wish it was just this one case but what about other potential causes of birth defects, like poverty? Can't get the right amount of food to eat because of poverty? Can't afford prenatal care? Can't afford to move out of a bad neighborhood, exposing yourself and the fetus to lead or other chemicals? Then guess what, you are going to be charged with manslaughter or worse.
     
    FoxHastings, Bowerbird and MJ Davies like this.
  21. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2020
    Messages:
    18,427
    Likes Received:
    17,528
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Remember "Driving While Black"?

    This will be "Pregnant While Female". I guess they don't have enough women in for-profit prisons so let's make everything a crime. Nice way to break up families. Yet, they want to claim to be about "family values". /smdh
     
    FoxHastings, Bowerbird and Kranes56 like this.
  22. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2011
    Messages:
    29,216
    Likes Received:
    4,100
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Exactly. This is going to end up criminalizing poverty, because hey, why not keep women behind bars and controlled? That's the easiest way to control them and take away their rights.
     
    FoxHastings, Bowerbird and MJ Davies like this.
  23. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2020
    Messages:
    18,427
    Likes Received:
    17,528
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Exactly. I know of a case of a single mother that prostituted to provide for her son and herself. She never exposed her son to her clients and he was well taken care of. Some "busy bodies" found out what she did for work and reported her to Child Protective Services. The boy was ripped from his mother (the only family he had) and placed in a group home in which he was bullied and sexually abused almost every day for the rest of his childhood.

    This is how I know that the people that think they are "helping" have never actually been involved in our family court system or had exposure to what actually happens to these kids. My own kids are terrified of police officers in uniforms because my ex called the cops on me hundreds of times (messy divorce) and they saw me get threatened, beaten up, thrown around, etc.. It is beyond crazy that anyone thinks that doesn't harm the children they claim to be "protecting". Add insult to injury, I've never been arrested but the same cops came back time and time under the guise of "protecting my children" (the dumbest part is I'm a former police officer and child abuse advocate - they didn't care because the ex is a fantastic liar - I'm the person that puts myself in harm's way to protect other people's kids. There is no way in hell I'd hurt my own).

    Our society is dysfunctional. All these armchair psychologists just tick me off to no end. They are dooming generations of kids to unspeakable things so they can stick their chests out and say they can sleep well now that women can't make choices about her own womb and life. All of them can go straight to hell as far as I'm concerned and that's a nicer ending than what will happen to most of the unwanted babies that will be born.
     
    FoxHastings and Bowerbird like this.
  24. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Messages:
    28,007
    Likes Received:
    8,764
    Trophy Points:
    113
    What you are asking for is unreasonable.
    As you know, it would be completely unethical to perform any scientific studies to answer the question on this.

    It's also unreasonable for you to expect that they test all different illegal drugs to see if each and every one of them could cause a miscarriage.

    I think it's pretty reasonable to assume that what she was on could have been a likely cause of the miscarriage. Is that rock solid "proof"? No.

    But you mistakenly seem to believe such a high level of proof is required here. No one is going to doubt she should have known she was probably endangering her unborn baby.
     
  25. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2014
    Messages:
    54,981
    Likes Received:
    20,329
    Trophy Points:
    113
    FoxHastings said:
    Oh, look, how sweet...calling those PRECIOUS LIVES "bastards"....

    Oh, look, how sweet...calling those PRECIOUS LIVES "bastards"....
     
    Bowerbird likes this.

Share This Page