Impending Doom

Discussion in 'Economics & Trade' started by CoolWalker, Feb 7, 2012.

  1. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Once again you show a complete lack of understanding hidden behind rhetoric. This might work with some who managed not to make it out of elementary school but for the rest of the folks here it is irritating.

    I would also note that you did not even answer the question by giving "why" the word "far" is political rhetoric so your post "as usual" is nothing but a dodge.

    It is true that the usage of the word "far" is not technically correct when writing technical reports because it does not give an accurate assessment of by how much expenditures exceed revenue. This however does not make the term political biased rhetoric.

    If you were to give some commentary that was of value .. you might have said something to help qualify the statement such as:

    Spending in excess of revenue is not necessarily a bad thing and can be sustained long term. What really matters is the interest payments as a ratio of income on the debt created by excess spending.

    For example: In today's world if the interest exceeds 30% of income .. alarm bells start to go off at the IMF and they start to give warnings that the water is coming into the ship faster than it is going out.

    Using this as our benchmark we could claim that spending levels that were creating debt such that interest payments were increasing as a ratio of revenue satisfied the use of the term "far" exceeding revenue.

    As it turns out interest payments have not increased that much as a ratio of revenue over the past 10 years in spite of increasing debt and slowed revenue growth due to refinancing that debt at shorter terms (lower interest rates).

    The problem with this is that if interest rates start to increase .. the impact to interest payments will be felt quickly because the old debt that is short term will have to be refinanced at the new higher rate in a short period of time.
     
  2. onalandline

    onalandline Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So then you know we are in trouble.
     
  3. onalandline

    onalandline Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You are correct. The country needs to be run as a household where there is a real budget process. Obama is not interested in a budget. That would limit his spending.
     
  4. dujac

    dujac Well-Known Member

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    i know that the country has overcome much worse and crying doom makes things worse


    ignorance like that would most likely have caused a loss in the revolutionary war


    then how do you explain the budget he's put forward?
     
  5. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    To compare the macroeconomy to a household really isn't cunning! The microeconomic foundations of macroeconomics certainly doesn't deliver that viewpoint as credible
     
  6. onalandline

    onalandline Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I agree. We have overcome a lot in the U.S. However, we need a leadership change to overcome our financial troubles.

    I am talking about a budget and priorities, not a war.

    I have not seen it. Link please.
     
  7. onalandline

    onalandline Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Every government should have a budget. Most don't seem to care about balancing it, since it is not their money to worry about. A company run like the government would have been liquidated a long time ago.
     
  8. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    You continue to make ludicrous comparisons. You cannot compare government to any other economic agent. You can't even make "gotta balance" comment as that is often inconsistent with economic rationality.
     
  9. dujac

    dujac Well-Known Member

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    no, the obstructionists and negativity needs to be stopped


    you don't know what you're talking about

    you shouldn't be making assertions about obama and his budget when you're completely ignorant of it

    all you have to do is google 'obama budget'


    a government run like a company doesn't get off the ground
     
  10. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We have overcome much worse ? This is your answer to the current deficit and debt problem ?

    If you want to go back to the times when things were worse .. then you have the right attitude.

    We were once a weak country .. and this is what you hope for again ?

    A country that runs the kind of deficits we are currently running runs straight into the ground.
     
  11. dujac

    dujac Well-Known Member

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    whining about deficit spending like you're doing isn't the solution, it's contributing to the problem
     
  12. stjames1_53

    stjames1_53 Banned

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    ok....then what is the solution? How does the governmnet fix this problem?
     
  13. dujac

    dujac Well-Known Member

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    the solution is to stop whining and produce
     
  14. stjames1_53

    stjames1_53 Banned

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    never whined.
    ....produce what? with what? distribute it where? We already feed you and yours and half the world. I get it, you still want a guaranteed free hand out? That makes you the whiner, IMO. How communistic of you. "Feed me Seymour...feed me"
    We'd have a lot more if we wern't feeding the whole (*)(*)(*)(*)ed world and giving other countries like yours free money in the form of foreign aid
     
  15. dujac

    dujac Well-Known Member

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    boy are you confused, as usual


    i live on a 30 acre estate with multiple gardens, orchards and lots of woods
     
  16. onalandline

    onalandline Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Then you admit that expenditures far exceed revenue in the U.S. Apparently this is ok in your limited world of classroom economics. Get back to your journal.
     
  17. onalandline

    onalandline Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Like I said, we need a leadership change.

    Apparently, you don't either.

    Obama has no intentions of actually passing a budget. He didn't do it when he had full control of the government.

    Tell that to successful companies.
     
  18. dujac

    dujac Well-Known Member

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    take some economics classes and stop falling prey to misinformation and political rhetoric
     
  19. Anikdote

    Anikdote Well-Known Member

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    And unlike any other entity, could continue on that path basically forever. Debt is a problem, but it's largely overstated for political purposes.
     
  20. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    I admit the obvious: you cannot compare the government to a household and deficits are often compatible with economic rationality. Your position is based on a right wing lack of understanding of basic economics
     
  21. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    LOL .. so according to dujac economics our current deficit is not a problem so we should not complain about the leadership that created the deficit.

    Got it !
     
  22. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    The current deficit isn't the problem. The neo-liberal inspired recession is the problem!
     
  23. onalandline

    onalandline Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The CBO is misinformation and political rhetoric I guess then.
     
  24. onalandline

    onalandline Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yeah, that's why Greece has been doing so well.
     
  25. dujac

    dujac Well-Known Member

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    no, the cbo isn't misinformation, the video in general is



    greece has little to nothing in common with the usa


    Why the United States Is Not Greece

    BY JOHN MILLER AND KATHERINE SCIACCHITANO

    For almost two years, we’ve been hearing a new battle cry in the war against government spending: unless the United States slashes deficits we will become Greece, Europe’s poster child for fiscal insolvency and economic crisis. The debt crisis in the eurozone, the 17 European countries that share the euro as their common currency, is held up as proof positive of the perils that await the United States if it continues its supposedly fiscally irresponsible ways.

    Take the Heritage Foundation, the Washington-based think tank that specializes in providing red meat for anti-government pro-market arguments. Heritage introduces its 2011 chart on the rising level of government debt (to GDP) with this dire warning: “Countries like Greece and Portugal have suffered or are anticipating financial crises as a result of mounting debt. If the U.S. continues federal deficit spending on its current trajectory, it will face similar economic woes.”

    Even for those who understand that cutting deficits right now will only weaken a still-fragile recovery, and that weakening the recovery will only increase deficits, getting past the argument that “a eurozone crisis is on its way” is no easy task.

    What follows is a self-defense lesson on why the United States is not Greece—or Europe. The U.S. economy is far larger and more productive than Greece. The United States has many more tools in its macro-economic policy box than countries in the eurozone. And while calls for austerity have kept the United States from undertaking government spending and investment large enough to support a robust economic recovery, at least thus far, the United States hasn’t undertaken the same self-defeating austerity measures Europe has. If we learn the right lessons from what is happening in the eurozone now, we never will.

    continued at
    http://www.dollarsandsense.org/archives/2012/0112millersciacchitano.html
     

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