Iran's Supreme Leader has declared nukes to be anti-Islamic

So you know this grave threat that Iran wants to nuke Israel?

Well, if that is the case, how come Ayatollah Khamenei issued a fatwa declaring the production, possession, and use of nukes to be forbidden under Islam? Khamenei is Iran's Supreme Leader, which means he's significantly more powerful that Ahmadinejad is.

Of course, he could be lying, but this is a binding religious decree by a religious leader. And isn't the concern about Iran based on the fact that these "mad mullahs" are really, really, really religious, that they are 100% motivated by their religious beliefs?

It is true that another Iranian mullah, Mohsen Gharavian, issued a fatwa allowing nuclear weapons as a "counter-measure" against other nuclear armed nations. But that mullah is not the Supreme Leader of Iran. No, it's the mullah that issued the fatwa declaring even the possession of nukes--let alone the use--haraam, i.e. forbidden under Islam.

Secondly, they keep saying that IF Iran gets a nuke, it will nuke Israel unprovoked. Since Israel has hundreds of nukes and a strategy called the Samson Option to obliterate any nation that threatens its existence, this would mean the leaders of the Iranian government would have to be SUICIDAL and willing completely destroy Iran to nuke in Israel.

But Iran is the only Shiite Muslim power in the world, the only official outpost of Shia. If it's leaders are really, really, really religious Shiites, wouldn't they have a huge religious incentive to protect Iran at all costs?

Also, how does this explain Ahmadinejad's attempts to develop Tehran's housing and public transportation? Why would a person who is planning to have Tehran obliterated within a few years care about improving its infrastructure?

And why would Ahmadinejad have called for Iranians to have more babies and increase the population if he's plotting to have them all destroyed anyway?

These facts don't fit with the narrative that the Iranian government is doing all it can to get its hands on a nuke to attack Israel, and it's time everyone be more levelheaded and circumspect about these things, instead of blindly beating the war drums like we did with Iraq.

 

The word Taqiyya comes to mind. The Iranians have left the Israelis no choice. Better safe than sorry. This is going to be real hard on the Iranian people.

 

Slaughter the Iranian people because "better safe than sorry"?

Amazing how the bloodthirstiness of all warmongers becomes indistinguishable from the violent fanaticism they claim to perceive in their enemies. "If you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you."

 

hate to tell you but the middle east is full of warmongers and only warmongers can fight other warmongers.

Peaceniks and doves get slaughtered.

 

Yep. That's exactly why firefighters carry flamethrowers instead of water hoses.

 

I don't have a dog in this fight. America is going to withdraw from the Middle East. But I am capable of putting myself in the shoes of another and thinking like he does.

It's simply a matter of analysis. The Israelis are out of options except suicide. They will never have peace, and soon Iran will be capable of destroying them.

We are in a moment of historic transition from one order to another. He who strikes first wins. It is what it is. Ghastly, but there is no longer any restraint on any side.

The Iranian Theocrats have made it quite clear that the Coming of the Mahdi is upon us. That means their motivation is primarily religious in nature. Such people cannot be deterred.

It is not possible to deter them. It is not possible to remove the threat by conventional means. The only available target is Iranian cities. Nothing else will stop those who are on a mission from Gawd.

This is going to be awfully hard on the Iranian people.

 

I don't know whether you realize it, but your post reminds me of the old aphorism about fighting fire with fire.

 

We've invaded and bombed other Islamic countries for less, nuclear weaponry was simply the excuse de jour. The government doesn't need legitimate reasons for any action they take as long as they gain the support, or at least avoid the disdain, of the people.

 

I just laid out evidence why the Iranian government does NOT want obliterate its own country, INCLUDING religious reasons. But you unflappably persist in this narrative of the Iranians as implacable, suicidal lunatics who to start a nuclear war. And your solution to that problem? To start a nuclear war!!

Good grief, you'd fit right in with Generals Ripper and Turgidson.

 

A cataclysm is required to bring about the Return of the Mahdi under the theology of the Twelver Sect of Shiism. No one can make this sh it up. Check out the fuzzy wuzzies:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwiadYT-N9k"]The Coming is Upon Us - Translation: Reza Kahlili (Author of "A Time To Betray&quot - Atimetobetray.com - YouTube[/ame]

 

You're just going to keep repeating the same old talking points and not address any of the evidence against this apocalyptic narrative.

Are you an expert on Shiite eschatology? Please point to me where Khamenei, Ahmadinejad, or anyone relevant as said anything approaching "We need to nuke Israel to get the Mahdi to return." Because there are cataclysms in the Book of Revelations too, yet I'm not worried about the Pope getting a nuke and dropping it on London.

Meanwhile, you appear to want to make the Mahdi return yourself, since you're the one saying Israel should spark the cataclysm itself by nuking Iran.

 

I don't give a sh it about Israel or Iran. The film was originally commissioned by the Iranian Theocracy. I take them at their word. Why are you an apologist for Iran? You're an American. America is being forced to withdraw from the Middle East. America doesn't have a dog in this fight. But the fight is interesting to watch.

Look, we're in a new world now as far as nuclear proliferation is concerned. Worry about America. It's only a matter of time until NYC is nuked because the technology is spreading.

 

America hasn't withdrawn yet. In fact, there are plenty of warmongers all around beating the drums to get further involved, in case you haven't noticed, which is precisely why I'm pointing out that it's war propaganda and paranoia.

You appear to have bought into the war propaganda that Iran is going to spark a nuclear war, but would prefer to sit back and "watch the show." I don't know which is worse.

In any case, while nuclear proliferation is a problem and will be probably till the end of time, you are wrong if you think there's no way to reduce the risk. One big way would be for the United States to move to a non-interventionist foreign policy, which means demonstrating to the American people that the Iranian leaders are NOT suicidal.

 

The American people aren't going to go along with any more war. They are exhausted, and in some ways their will has been broken. The only Americans who want war with Iran are Neo-Cons have been disgraced.

Neo-Isolationism is the path most suited for what remains of America. Nuclear proliferation has guaranteed that there will be a nuclear war somewhere. Deterrence breaks down as the numbers of nuclear weapons states increases. Under nuclear war theory the greater the number of nuclear weapons states and powers, the greater the likelihood of use.

America isn't going to persuade any one that Iran isn't a threat because no one in the Middle East takes America seriously any more imo. Besides, Ahmadinejad's faction and Khamenei's faction are both Twelver's, i.e., the most radical of the radical.

I'm simply applying logic to the circumstances. I don't see any way out for Israel other than a first strike using City Busters. Oh btw, if you want to have an exchange with me it will be necessary for you not to personalize our discussion. That means don't discuss me.

 

That would be wonderful, but Obama's not going to do it. None of the Republicans, other than Ron Paul are going to do it. Unless Paul's elected president, I don't know when you see the grand withdrawal coming until the dollar collapses and you don't know when that will be.

It's a worry, but it's not an inevitability. And there are ways to reduce the risk.

85% of Shiites are Twelvers. Are 85% of Shiites suicidal? Sorry, I don't believe it. I'll need extraordinary evidence of the extraordinary claim that 170 million people are plotting murder-suicidal through nuclear war.

If that's what it comes down to the only moral choice would be for the Israelis to pack up and move someplace else.

Necessary? Why is that? Because, frankly, your motivations confuse me. If you think the destruction of mankind is inevitable and there are no solutions, why argue about it. That doesn't make any sense to me, and I'd be very interested to know your reasons for it.

 

Actually how quickly America forgets we invaded and bombed IRAN itself for less (to protect some oil wells for a while)!

We installed a murderous and corrupt dictator and kept him in power for decades while he installed one of the most ruthless and cruel secret police ever. The Shah wholesale imprisoned and murdered teenage girls because they refused to buy his wife's company's uniforms for school, uniforms he decreed ALL students in the country must wear!

Corrupt and murderous dictators just like we just did in Iraq and Afghanistan! The idiocy NEVER ends.

Yet, Americans walk around saying "Iran and the Muslims hate the USA for our freedoms!" The irony and hypocrisy is endless!

 

Do you take all American propaganda at its word too? Remember all the crap spewed about WMD, mobile chemical labs, etc, in Iraq?

 

Indeed; the deposing of the democratically elected Mossadegh government by the CIA, representing a nation which trumpets itself as the last word in democracy, was the absolute pinnacle of hypocrisy.
Why anyone would have any faith in America's idea of 'democracy' after that is beyond me.
Any issues America now has with Iran it brought on itself.

 

It looks like the Supreme Leader has finally notice the very dangerous game Ahmadinejad is playing with the nuclear development program. Could this be the straw that breaks the camel's back and causes a showdown between the two most powerful men in Iran?

 

lol...well thank God a high ranking mullah has settled this.

What does the Koran say about slaughtering innocent protesters?

 

It could be..Mahmoud is on the ropes.

However it could just be another tactic to maintain further plausible deniability. I mean after all if he says it ,it must be true.

 

He issued the Fatwa in 2005, not lately.....and Seymour Hersh reports in the latest issue of The New Yorker that “despite years of covert operations inside Iran, extensive satellite imagery, and the recruitment of Iranian intelligence assets, the United States and its allies, including Israel, have been unable to find irrefutable evidence of an ongoing hidden nuclear-weapons program in Iran.”

synopsis

Kinda begs the question...just how can anybody prove a negative good enough to convince the frankly paranoid before the advent of end of times which their paranoia may well provoke?

 

The Supreme Leader of Iran isn't even a grand ayatollah, and one of the late clerics who did rise to that lofty position has already issued a fatwa that states Khamenei, et al, possess no religious legitimacy:

For everyone who's gullible enough to take Ali Khamenei's word and authority on pure faith, I've got some oceanfront property in Kansas to sell you...

 

Iran will NEVER nuke Israel..

The claim that they will or intend to do so is simply a political ploy on the part of the Likkud government.

 

No govt. speaks the truth. Especially fuzzy wuzzies on a mission from Gawd. The Coming of the Mahdi is theological, not purely political.