Iran's Supreme Leader has declared nukes to be anti-Islamic

I'll be here to say I told you so, after he nukes Israel. It won't bring Israel back though.

 

On could say the same about the Pentagon.

 

I'm skipping a few pages, but it seems like what should be the main point doesn't come up.

Except for theories about some kind of messiah with a force shield, people don't think Iran is going to overtly launch a massive attack against Israel.

Rather, having a nuclear weapons will give them the ability to engage in conventional, black, and 3rd party terrorist attacks in the region. And they expect to be able to get away with it.

There is also the possibility of a covert nuclear attack. No fancy launchers, just a small unmarked sailing or fishing boat with a couple martyrs that sails close to any coastal city in the world. And then boom.

If that happens, what are we supposed to do? Nuke Iran and Pakistan just to be sure? If we make that our policy, what if India or Israel decides to give the situation a little helping hand?

They pulled footage from "The lord of the Rings"

Otherwise that's horrifying...a religious belief basically pushing for large scale war indefinitly (because there isn't an messiah for them of course).

There wasn't anything about nukes in there. Just war and conquest. Nukes provide the muscle required to make such a move, which could be conventional but with nukes to keep others from interfeering or beating back Iran.

Place your bets now on if Obama will bomb Syria.

Crying wolf about Iraq may have horrible horrible consequences.

 

Oh that again, convieniantly forget the Cold War and label it interventionist as some sort of blight. If Washington had a non-interventionist policy for the last 60 years the USSR would probably have consumed the entire Middle East into communist mother Russia... please.

 

Would that be such a bad thing ? 911 would not have happened !

 

I don't think we should just blindly take the words of Iran's top cleric as the final word for Iran's nuclear program. There is a power struggle in Iran.

It's slightly similar to the story of Christendom when there were power struggles between its "kings" and its "popes" over who had more authority.

Who knows, one day Ahmadinejad may fall prey to an inquisition, but it doesn't mean he will stop his nuclear ambitions any time soon. But, maybe he really only wants a civilian power station? YOu never know.

 

None of that would have happened... plz
The USSR died because of the massive costs of foreign intervention not to unlike the USA today.
On to Iran and nukes let them have it they'd only use it to defend their territory since it is the only shia stronghold, they wouldn't lose that by a preemptive strike or backing groups with nukes. At the very least if other countries can pursue nuclear energy like the states(who have extremely poor regulations) then i don't see why Iran can't, they even offered to allow foreign supervision.

 

Better safe than sorry. Strike while the iron is hot. The jews have no alternative.

 

What are you talking about? Israelis don't want to go to war with Iran. That would screw over their country even more economically. The biggest threat to Israel is the right wing extremists and promoters of mass indiscriminant killing like yourself.

 

You are turning Judaism into a disease.

 

LOL yea right, the USSR wouldn't have had any interest in MidEast oil sure. The reason the USSR died is because they tried to keep up with US defense spending and ran themselves off the rails. What you call foreign intervention can generate its own income, especially if they'd control the MidEast oil.

For me Iran looses its rights to WMD when it provides finance and weapons to terrorist organisations and openly calls for the destruction of another country. Over time more and more nations will have the capacity to produce them, but not everyone should have nukes just because a few nations already do, they are too powerful to have everywhere. They need to be tightly controlled wherever they are and proliferation drastically reduces any chance of controlling them.

Havent you heard, nuclear energy is going out of fashion anyway. Go build some wind farms or something.

 

Striking first is not about mass indiscriminant killing, its about stopping the Iranian capacity to produce radioactive material and nuclear weapons. I don't think a nuke would be the best way to do that.

 

It is not necessary to show why the US should wage war upon Iran; the simple fact is that Iran is already waging war upon the US. And, no, not just a rhetorical war, either; but a real, leve, shooting war.

Iran has been regularly targeting American soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan for years now. Jeffrey Goldbergi in The Atlantic--not exactly a hard-right publication--verifies this, in a recent article: http://www.theatlantic.com/internat...erican-troops-in-iraq-and-afghanistan/241486/

Bringing about the Eschaton, complete witht he glorious return of the Twelfth Imam, is what I am suggesting that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad wishes to do.

 

I don't care about Israel. What they do is nothing more than a matter of intellectual curiosity. From the standpoint of a detached observer the Israelis have a choice to make: live or die. If they choose to live there is only one way for them to accomplish that objective. I advocate nothing other than American withdrawal from the Middle East.

 

All religions are simply the search for meaning. That's all.

 

Does this really require explaining to you?

For starters, Khamenei obviously enjoys power. Secondly, to step down would constitute acknowledgement of Grand Ayatollah Montazeri's criticism. I'm sure there are other reasons - Khamenei had an axe to grind with Montazeri that goes back a long time.

You're scraping rock bottom resorting to strawmen - I have never supported and/or endorsed a pre-emptive military attack on Iran, so you can stop pretending that I am.

What you can't seem to wrap your brain around is Khamenei's religious legitimacy, and the authority that comes with it, correlates directly to how the public receives and treats his fatwas. If he's viewed as "condemned and illegitimate", people are going to dismiss and scorn his fatwas. Khamenei can think he's the Mahdi, but if no one else does, what he thinks of himself doesn't amount to jack in the mind of the public.

Are you catching on yet?

Are you even familiar with the Shiite doctrine of taqiyya?

Wake up - Ali Khamenei has presided over one of the most rights-repressive regimes on the planet for years. He's allowed his brownshirts to massacre and brutalize Iranian citizens with impunity. If you haven't questioned this man's integrity by now, there's something seriously wrong with your critical faculties.

I don't trust any thug that is willing to murder his own people. If he doesn't value their lives, he can't be trusted to value anyone else's lives.

Your "logic" is fallacious. Khamenei's word is worthless, and his regime has not been cooperating with the IAEA concerning the possible military dimensions of its nuclear program:

Thankfully, the IAEA isn't as eager to drink Khamenei's Kool-Aid as you are...

 

Then you're not a very well informed observer because Iran knows it can't make a move against Israel because they have a covert nuclear arsenal. And for Israelis to move against Iran would be an even bigger drain on their economy. They can barely keep up with dealing with Gaza, Lebanon, and Syria engaging with Iran would be an absolute death blow to their own country and even the leaders of Israel don't want to engage in a direct conflict as they would become incredibly unpopular. They simply want to invoke the fear that it could happen so they can keep oppressing their population, receive military aid from the us and keep their military industrial operating on levels it shouldn't be. Israelis have one option forward to solve their foreign issues through diplomacy where possible so that they can focus on issues inside their own country.

 

Let me give you a heads up that will be useful to you throughout your life. If you seek discourse then never personalize the debate. You will never go wrong with that approach if your objective is an exchange of insights.

Israel is as strong today from a strategic standpoint as it will ever be.

Israel will never have peace with the Palestinians.

Iran is destined to become the dominant regional state from a strategic standpoint.

Iran is a Theocracy governed by The Twelver Sect of Shiism, which is itself a messianic faith.

The President of Iran and its Supreme Leader are both Twelvers.

Twelvers believe that the Twelfth Imam will only return to this plane of existence on occurrence of a world shattering cataclysm.

They believe the Twelfth Imam's Coming will happen soon. Go to Youtube and look up "The Coming Is Upon Us." The video was originally produced on behalf of the Iranian Govt.

That means the Iranian Theocrats are on a mission for Gawd Almighty.

That makes them religious zealots.

Religious zealots cannot be deterred by the Doctrine of Mutual Assured Destruction.

The Theocratic Govt. cannot be decapitated.

Its strategic assets cannot be destroyed with conventional weapons.

A conventional attack on Iran will lead to terrible retribution from Iran.

There is only one way to eliminate the Iranian nuclear program. Strike it before it is deployed.

 

I didn't say they didn't have interest in oil. It would be impossible for them to expand their borders over the M.E. at worst they would have an governmental relationship like the US and Chile where they have a lot of influence through manipulation. How horrible they would have found themselves in the predicament Americans find themselves today. The west improved little to nothing in the ME much like Russia would have. The USSR collapsed because of massive corruption that used the cold war as an excuse to waste the money, lives and jobs of their people for profit. It was a short term scheme that got some people very rich and all others screwed over. It wasn't about the spreading the ideology of Communism it was about acquiring more money.
It's too bad Iran solely loses its rights because pretty much every other major nuclear power has the same standard. Countries finance terrorists and horrible regimes all the time it sucks but I don't see why they are given special privileges. I think nukes are stupid but If a country pursues them I'm not willing to support intervention unless they use them.
I think nuclear energy is stupid too but if they meet all the requirements as Iran does then don't see why they can't pursue it.

 

Superb post!

 

The Soviet Union collapsed for the same reasons Bourbon France and Qing Dynasty China collapsed. Financial instability. That is the same reason Amerca is collapsing.

 

Are you sure that the Iranian government isn't simply exploiting the religious beliefs of others for their benefits like pretty much every other corrupt person in power. People exploit religious beliefs all the time and Israeli intelligence is smart enough to see through this. Neither country wants nuclear war except some extremists within the countries but not the majorities and not the people in power.

 

Pretty much

 

In matters of life and death it is best to take one's enemy at his word.

 

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwiadYT-N9k"]The Coming is Upon Us - Translation: Reza Kahlili (Author of "A Time To Betray&quot - Atimetobetray.com - YouTube[/ame]
It really drags I didn't watch the whole thing.
Why is it they used a nun as one of their narrators?