Irrefutable proof of Evolution.

I see on this forum that we have some member who call Evolution a 'fairy-tale' or say 'Evolution is a joke'

I will present irrefutable evidence of Evolution.

Human beings are part of the Hominidae taxonomic family.

Now ALL Hominidaes have 48 chromosomes except for one. That is human-beings. And no, this not 'what it means to be human' either. We have 46, not 48.

So where is the missing chromosome? Or is a chromosome missing? What gives?

If evolution were true (which it is), we can assume 2 things:

1 – A mutation occurred after human-beings split off from it next nearest relative – the chimpanzee, who’s DNA matches humans by 95-98%. After all, mutations will only show up in FUTURE generations, not past generations. An easy explanation as too why no other Hominidaes have 46 chromosomes but humans

2 – We will see evidence of this mutation.

So where is this 'smoking gun' for this mutation? Enter Human Chromosome 2. Human Chromosome 2 is the 2nd largest chromosome in humans. Now, here’s the kicker: the chimpanzee has nearly the same genetic information in its chromosomes 2 and 3 that humans have in Human Chromosome 2. The same is found in even more distant gorilla and orangutan. This is proof that mutation occurred in human beings – fusing together of chromosomes 2 and 3 into one – A.K.A Human Chromosome 2.

Irrefutable proof of Evolution – a mutation occurring, one in which you do not see in past generations or in other closely related species but you do see in all future generations of which that mutation had occurred. Evolution in action.

 

This is precisely the evidence that Ken Miller entered into testimony at the Kitzmiller v. Dover trial.

 

I never heard of that trail until today.

 

Here it is.

Kitmiller v. Dover, Ken Miller direct

Search for "chromosome number2."

 

To quote the above article from kmisho

The above is a much better explination than i gave in my opening statement.

Thank you kmisho

 

My favorite part:

"So the case is closed in a most beautiful way..."

 

So human chromosome 2 looks very simmilar to the fusion to two specific chimpanzee chromosomes. Maybe the reason for this is that God created humans with 24 pairs of chromosomes, a chromosome fusion happened and spread through the population, and so now we have 23 chromosomes. Since humans are 99% like chimpanzees the two human chromosomes that make up the fused version (chromosome 2) have very simmilar chimpanzee counterparts.

So lets say God independently creates humans with chromosome A (aaaaa) and chromosome B (bbbbb), and then independently creates chimpanzees which have nearly indentical DNA, and they also have chromosome A (abaaa), and chromosome B (babbb). The human A and B chromosomes fuse to form chromosome C (aaaaabbbbb).

Lets compare human chromosome C to chimpanzee chromosomes A and B:
Human Chromosome C: aaaaa|bbbbb
Chimpanzee chromosomes A and B: abaaa babbb

So human chromosome C will look nearly like chimpanzee chromosomes A and B stacked right on each other. I am not a creationist but the simmilarites between human chromosome 2 and chimpanzee chromosomes 2a and 2b does not contradict creationism.

 

Then you just stated that a mutation has occurred and that Evolution is indeed true.

Remember, Evolution has NOTHING to do with how life formed...just what happens to life ONCE it has formed. So is is possible, however very unlikely, for a 'god' to create life and once he creates in, Evolution takes over.

That my take on your post.

On a side note, the reason why christians fear Evolution, is because genetics in general pretty much destroys the book of genesis.

 

Evolution is a scientific theory that has nothing to do with religion, so why are you posting this thread in the Religion Forum?

 

This just misses the point of the predictive power of evolution. The way the genetic discovery was made was by accepting that evolution predicts the common ancestry of chimps and humans then reasoning that there MUST be some PHYSICAL evidence to explain the difference in chromosome-count. This is a fine basis for an experiment. When the experiment was done, everything expected to be found, assuming that evolution is true, was found.

So, sure, maybe, in the vaguest possible way, one can explain this, or indeed anything, by appeal to a magic being. But this is both ad hoc and, as ken Miller pointed out time and time again, beyond the purview of science. That what you posit might be true does not even put a small dent in the demonstrated predictive power of evolutionary theory.

 

1 - Because many of the christians on this board keep saying 'Evolution is a fairy-tale' or say 'Evolution is a joke'

2 - Do you care to disupte this irrefutable proof of Evolution, or just troll and derail the thread?

 

Where are the "intelligent design" experiments? There are none.

 

Atleast this thread is legit, posting evidense for is so much more useful than "well.... evolution can't explain this [and I have nothing to offer myself, but...], so it must be false!"

 

As someone said, intelligent design is just some psudo-mathematical meanderings with an overarching argument from ignroance.

 

It's a non issue. God created everything including physics and evolution. God doesn't sit around and wave a magic wand. Physics and evolution are his tools.
It's my opinion that creation as stated in the Bible is simplistic for a reason. In the time it was written, it would not have been possible to present God's complexity. Man would not have understood it at all.

We did not evolve from apes, at any rate. We still do not fully understand the evolution/creation of humans. Some day we probably will, but not yet.

 

So the bible was written for only some people?

 

Really? Link please.

I would recommend you read your bible. It claims otherwise.

Based on what? Pure defensive speculation?

Yes, it was written by a goat herder 4,000 years ago. Not exactly a deep thinker.

Hey! You got one right. We did not evolve from apes. We share ancestors with apes. Awesome job Trinnity!

 

Yes, it was written for the believers. The people of God.

Quantrill

 

I am an evolutionist myself but I am giving the biggest reason the chromosome things is not very threatening to creationism. I do see it as a confirming a prediction the theory of evolution makes and so is still a piece of evidence of evolution. I wouldn't call it irrrefutable proof of evolution though.

You are right, most people don't believe in evolution because if their Hebrew creation myth.

 

Do you have any evidence to support your hypothesis that 'god' created physics and evolution? No where in the bible is physics and evolution mentioned.

Are you really trying to BS your way here? Are you really trying to tell us, that 'god' is powerful enough to make this vast universe (billions of galaxies containing billions of stars), but yet can't get man to understand psychics and evolution? You should really think before coming in here with such an absurd and ridiculous statement.

And yes, we did evolve from an ape like creature. We split off from the Chimpanzees about 6-8 million years ago. Even thou we have not found the 'missing link' as on the way of bones, we can trace back our DNA and the Chimpanzees DNA to find a common ancestor.

The amount of BS the theist wants people to believe is astounding to say the least.

 

I would, because Evolution is the only plausible explanation we have. When presented with this, creationists only can say, well the designer must have designed it that way....A.K.A. no real response.

This is also a hilarious response to this:

 

its time to bog down the thread with symantics as to why you're wrong.


What is irrefutable? what is proof? is it really "irrefutable" is it really "proof" per say?

can one really "prove" "science"

you see, it's not how you're saying it, its that you're saying it.

 

Lets see, Im a Christian, and so am a creationist, and I have another explanation. God created the animals and plants and man just as Genesis says.

No evolution. Direct creation.

Quantrill

 

Do you have evidence that God did not create physics and evolution?

The Bible are stories explaining what God did in an easy to understand way.

 

To me evolution is a fact but not because of just one piece of evidence but because of the sum total of evidence that we have collected.

This creationist idea that you cannot predict something that has already occured is bogus. Then how on earth do we know that Egyptians built the pyramids? How do Christian know that the supernatural events in the bible took place?

This creationist also doesn't understand how science works and just doesn't get the chromosome fusion example. You confirm a theory by making predictions with it, and then seeing if real life confirms these predictions.

I mean, creationists have this insane and impractical level of skepticism and demand for absolute proof when it comes to evolution that even science does not adhere too, yet they will be so uncritical about the bible.