Is anti trans all Christianity?

This is more an issue of either not agreeing on what transgenderism is, or not agreeing what a delusion is. There is no false belief in transgenderism. They want to be the other gender, they realize they are not. They want to be so badly, that it is better to approximate that existence as best they can rather than use some other coping mechanism which may be adequate if the desire were less intense.

That is a matter of reality and facts, not desires. Now you are stretching the definition of "feelings" to include unsubstantiated hunches that turn into unsubstantiated beliefs. There is no hunch or belief about reality that is false in transgenderism. It's about a strong desire.

They are describing how it feels. I mean, there is some evidence that their brains really are different, so maybe the mismatch between biology and their mental existence isn't too far from the truth. But all they really know is that what they want is not how they were born. There is no delusion.

Since they mentally feel like the other gender, there are really no facts to prove or disprove at the heart of this. Calling it the "wrong body" is simply a description of how it feels to them. If that's their true feeling, there is no way for us to call a feeling a delusion. Feelings are somebody else's reality. Feelings can come from a delusion, but they are not delusional about what sex they were born as. I get you say it's a delusion they were "born in the wrong body," but given fate likely doesn't exist and is unknowable if it did, there's really no basis for determining the facts on that matter one way or the other without bringing irrational elements of religion into the discussion.

You're the one calling it a delusion when the medical establishment does not. Suggesting some woke conspiracy instead of the simple logic that leads others to know it's not a delusion because it is not a disconnect from facts. It's really not about sources. It's about the basic definition of what gender dysphoria is, and what delusion is. Your source doesn't say what you think it does.

 

Muslims preform multiple wedding ceremonies depending on their culture. Some of the ceremonies don’t have wording outright banning same sex ceremonies. It’s not an impossibility. It could happen some day and it will be dependent upon on what the officiant will and will not do.

 

So in your own words, this poll proves to you that Muslims have a stronger preference for “equal application for rights” that could go far beyond gays than Christians do. If Christians cite their religion for the driving force behind failure to recognize other people’s rights, why do Christian values deserve any respect or admiration? That stands against the principles laid out in the Bill of Rights and Constitution.

 

I think tolerance is hard to gauge and the definition can be debated. The problem with religious groups is they fuse acceptance and tolerance, and sometimes even discrimination. I personally have no issue accepting and tolerating a person who is LGBT. I want them to have the same rights and not face discrimination throughout life. Why wouldn’t I? Religious Christians try to separate all these concepts. It’s hard to understand. It’s like saying I like Obama despite the fact that he is black. I don’t think he should be allowed to sit at the front of bus, but that doesn’t mean I don’t love him. I am actually nice to him and all blacks. I am a nice person, but they shouldn’t be allowed to do certain things that I do. I mean, what’s the big deal?

 

Are you really suggesting that there is a ton of overlap between individuals that believe gay people should be arrested but should also be able to marry?

Thats absurd quite frankly.

There is a fairly vocal group of evangelicals that believe gay people should be stoned, murdered or arrested also.

 

30% of the US population that wants it banned and the millions of gay people and their families disagree with your assessment. But thanks for your opinion. It’s highly valued!

 

The exact quote from the link that you said I am misintepreting and that you know the real answer to was " Many trans people have felt since birth, or at least a very young age, that they were born in the wrong body "

In light of that quote, how exactly are you rationalizing that my intepretation that they believe they are a woman in a man's body is incorrect, while your interpretation that they realize they are not is somehow correct?

Sincerely, that does not make any sense. I understand that they realize they have a penis, that is NOT in question, but I suspect what it is that you are arguing. Of course they know they have a penis, that would not be the delusional part. The delusional part ( if in fact it we are going to call it a delusion), is the internal belief that they are a woman inside a mans body. You keep wanting to discuss them knowing they have a penis as if that is the issue that some title a delusion, but in reality, the issue that some title a delusion is their belief that they are a woman inside a mans body. This was titled a delusion all the way up until 2010 when they changed the designation from gender identity disorder which was considered a delusional state, to the now categorization of gender dysphoria which is NOT a delusional disorder. Once again to be clear, when they titled it a delusional disorder up tunil 2010, they were not basing that on the mistaklen notion that these people think they do not have a penis when they do, rather it was based on the notion that they believe they are a woman inside of a mans body. If you are going to argue against it being a delusion, at least argue against the correct rationale for that being the case.

Nothing changed in the science that precipitated that change, only the politics and the growing power of the LGBTQ lobby. Even if you are going to argue that this change was correct, you still cannot act as if I am spouting some radical theory when the DSM itself just over a decade ago still called it a delusional disorder.

Up until 2010, the DSM considered transgenderism a delusional disorder. The science hasnt changed, but the politics certainly have. Hell, in 2010 Obama was still opposed to gay marriage but I digress.

Up until 2010, the DSM considered transgenderism a delusional disorder. The science hasnt changed, but the politics certainly have. Hell, in 2010 Obama was still opposed to gay marriage but I digress.

Up until 2010, the DSM considered transgenderism a delusional disorder. The science hasnt changed, but the politics certainly have. Hell, in 2010 Obama was still opposed to gay marriage but I digress.

Up until 2010, the DSM considered transgenderism a delusional disorder. The science hasnt changed, but the politics certainly have. Hell, in 2010 Obama was still opposed to gay marriage but I digress.

You can argue that the change was correct, but you cannot act as if I am spouting unfounded nonsense with it being titled a delusional disorder up until 2010.

 

That WOULD be absurd, EXCEPT THAT I SAID ABSOLUTELY NOTHING OF THE SORT!!! Literally NOTHING.

Oh look.....ANOTHER STRAWMAN!

 

Can you cut and paste whatever words of mine that you think that I am claiming that Muslims have a stronger preference for "equal application for rights" that could go far beyond what Christians do.

The only thing that was established in that conversation was that he showed a poll that compared Evangelical Christians ( a subset of Christiantity that is particularly devout and strict) to all American Muslims in regards to support for gay marriage. Nothing more, and nothing less. I am not even sure what your characterization means entirely, but I have said nothing beyond what I just typed. Equal application of rights is a far more complex topic than simply gay marriage, while of course gay marriage is ONE component of that notion.

I am neither Christian nor Muslim, I truly do not have a dog in this fight.

I presume that you are saying that because Evangelical Christians oppose gay marriage (via their interpretation of their religion that marriage is a religious sacrement), that therefore they do not deserve any respect. I find such an implication to be silly. Reality is FAR more nuanced than that.

While I am not religious even slightly, I respect the legitimate practice of one's religion. I guess I could ask with your lack of respect for sincerely held religious belief, why are you worthy of respect or admiration?

 

oh bull f&*(^* sh**. NOBODY CARES! I have no doubt you can post some asshat poll to back up your assertion. the poll will have a number of problems, as most do. and no, i don't care enough to find those problems myself. what i do know is, outside of religion (which, by the way, is not required to perform ceremony), nobody freaking cares. why would they?

 

You are the one bringing up people wanting to have gay people arrested as being the line of tolerance.

But whatever.

Do you think screaming makes your point factual?

 

Yes, you have already stated your opinion.
Facts simply disagree

 

My point was 100% factual. I said nothing of the sort.

SCREAMING IS MERELY AN ATTEMPT TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU SEE IT, because judging by your nonsensical mischaracterization of what I had said, I can only conclude that you did not actually read what I wrote. If they had bright flashing lights I would try that as well.

 

You seem to be trying to assert that the average Muslim supporting same sex marriage while the average evangelical does not is irrelevant to the point that the average Muslim is less likely to have tolerance for gay people vs the average evangelical.

Polls do not indicate this

 

Once again, NO I AM NOT.

I have said it is one component and I have said so several times. If you take this back to the original context, you made this all encompassing statement that they are more tolerant of LGBTQ, and with that being a topic that I had never seen polled, I asked for a few of these studies because I was sincerely interested in the more expanded topic that I took your words to mean. In response you provided support for gay marriage for the small subset of the devout evangelicals to all of American Muslim. If that had been your statement at the beginning I would have never asked, because in truth, that answer is rather obvious because American Muslims are something like 70% Democrat. Of course they are going to have a higher degree of support for gay marriage.

Your statement was all-encompassing. When I think of the problems that we have with the Muslim religion, it is almost exlusively due to radical islam. Radical Islam in the Middle east is something like 15% and it is surely even far less here, that much is not in doubt. Now if we are to take the notion of Muslims being dangerous to LGBTQ, it would clearly be from the small subset of Islam that is more radical For that type of analysis, you need something far more in depth than some generalized most favor gay marriage type of evaluation. I thought that you were claiming something along those lines, so I asked. You did not have anything along those lines, all you were talking about is a majority support for gay marriage.

This does NOT mean that I am asserting that the average Muslim supporting same sex marriage is irrelevant, rather I am asserting that this topic is NOT the same thing as saying more tolerant of LGBTQ. The term more tolerant can be defined in several ways, and you used it only in the narrowest of ways which was applying it to one single issue.

Once again, the problems that the world has had with Islam is not from the moderate factions, it is specifically about its more radical counterparts. You were only referring to the preponderance that is OBVIOUSLY moderate.

 

right. gotta keep a lock tight hold of that victim card.

 

I would disagree that people hating me or thinking I deserve less rights because my inclusion of a minority group makes me a victim — I am not a Republican after all. How are the Starbucks / bud light / Disney / education / media / books battles going?

That still doesn’t change the FACT that polling and basic logic disagrees with the assessments made. Cheers. Please take the last word, I would hate for you to walk away without that.

 

No one thinks you deserve less rights. fu**ing victim mentality. They're out to get you... lol

 

I have already shown you a poll that says 29% of the US population doesn’t believe gay people should have the right to marriage.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/393197/same-sex-marriage-support-inches-new-high.aspx

So are you saying this poll is incorrect or are you saying being denied the right to marry isn’t less rights?

 

It's easier just not to pretend men are women.

Dumb point.

 

I would have a problem with people not allowing others to have their rights. This is typically criminal behavior and it isn't tolerated.

So what exactly did you mean? never heard of a political leader that caused damage to civil rights? is this something you have encountered?

there are some politicians that try to interfere with the second amendment, is that what you mean?

 

Anti-Christianity is prevalent in way too much of the Left

CA to pay Christian doctors $300K in legal fees over assisted-suicide

The Woke Creeps In CA tried to force Christian doctors to help kill people.

 

A feeling is not the essence of a delusion. In order to qualify as delusional, a person has to believe something that is false even when there is evidence of the contrary.

My brother-in-law actually did believed the CIA was following him, and he was diagnosed with psychosis and schizophrenia, People with delusional disorders act on their delusional beliefs because their delusions define the reality they live in. Delusions are not not simply feelings. In my brother in law’s case he physically attacked a camera crew and journalist live on TV because he thought that they were setting up cameras in order to follow him. When he was arrested, he proceeded to claim that they were harassing him, following him, and that the CIA was trying implant him with things.

That is clearly a textbook example of somebody being delusional. Saying, “I feel like I’m being followed” and somebody isn’t actually following you, isn’t a sign that you’re delusional. It might be a sign that you’re paranoid. It might be a sign that you’re hyper vigilant. It could indicate PTSD, anxiety, or it could mean that you have a logical reason to feel or perceive you’re being followed when you’re not and when you realize you’re not actually being followed, your threat system returns to normal, and you remain a logical and sane person.

You’re very desperate to link transgenderism with delusions and the proof just isn’t there. It’s not in the DSM and you know it. If this is your area of expertise then you should understand all of this.

 

I’m glad that you don’t the majority of American Muslims living in this country secretly wish that they could kill gay people.

But I will rephrase what I said for clarity. Again, my friend is from Pakistan and he didn’t want to murder gay people when they hit on him. I know a lot of Muslims from all over the world. I’ve been to parts of the Middle East and Asia. People in Dubai and Emirates don’t regularly kill gay people. The majority of Muslims in the world do not live in countries where it’s legal to kill gay people, nor are they occupied by terrorist groups actively killing gay people.

 

I feel like I have already addressed the above argument numerous times during this conversation. I have zero desire to just keep repeating the same argument over, and over, and over...

We have both had our say. It is time to move on.