Hi everyone! I am a student from Penn State and as a project we need to participate in online deliberation forums. You all seem like an opinionated and well-versed bunch so I would like to propose a general question for debate. At the moment, I am for stricter gun control. I feel like guns are unnecessary and we can protect ourselves through other means. I am interested in hearing your opinions and thoughts, however, because I am totally open to new views - I've been wavering on and off for a bit. My question is: Do you think that the United States would prosper or falter with stricter gun control laws? If Obama continues on his path to restrict guns then this might be a future problem. What are your reasons why? And how can we show bipartisanship and work towards an ideal situation? Thanks so much for reading!
Every liberty we lose makes us poorer in spirit. If we lose the right to defend ourselves with the best means possible, then we are no longer as free as we once were. That is not a good thing, IMHO. For a fit, young person, you may be right. You don't need a gun for self-defense. For those of us not so fit, guns are the great equalizer. They allow the 80 yr old grandma in a wheelchair to defend herself against a fit 17 yr old gangbanger. There is no other weapon that is as efficient of a self defense device than a modern handgun. When that changes, I will change my view on the necessity of firearms. Tasers, pepper spray, etc. are not nearly as effective at stopping an attacker as is a handgun. There is no bipartisan solution. There is only giving up freedom in exchange for security. As Ben Franklin said, "He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither."
I smell a trap. No, we would not be better off. The reason I have is that the young, athletic, bands of men would have more force potential than a lone person of any athletic build or age. This is called a monopoly of force. The maintenance of a monopoly of force goes back to feudal ages where the feudal lords (knights and such) were of a different class than the tax paying serfs. The serfs relied on the feudal lords and their men at arms to protect them during wars and such things. This is what paid for taxes: the upkeep of the lord, his men at arms, upkeep of the keep/castle, storage of food, etc. for a prolonged siege. Today, we do not have that same system of different class systems and we pay taxes for a different reason, but pretty much the same thing is trying to be done right now. We have a person that is elected by the people and then some of them pass out laws that do not pertain to them, just those that are out in the normal world. This includes guns. The politicians like Feinstein say that you cannot own a firearm for self protection and would force you to turn them all in, yet say at the same time [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQ-6bmN2cQA]they needed a gun at one point[/url] and gave their justification for owning one. The politicians are trying to make a monopoly of force against the population that they represent by slowly stripping guns away from individuals one at a time under a guise of legality until you no longer have an equal means of force against another person. Then there is a government sponsored, supplied, and paid police force to protect you. I do not abide by having my protection and well being provided by the government, handed out like alms to the poor. In my opinion, there has been a mentality of being less self-sufficient and more dependent on others to provide for them. This is not what America was founded on; it was founded on individual liberty instead of collectivism. To solve the problem, we need to find the root cause. We can use Chicago as a prime example of what does and doesn't work. This is all my opinion, but I believe the root cause of violence in Chicago is a large minority population with single parent families that is usually the mother. We have large young male populations looking for father figures in communities with fatherless homes and there is no strong figure to fill this spot except for other youths that are a little bit older. Rampent crime and violence comes from areas such as this without a good father figure. The following article is a good overview of the problem that I believe we are facing. http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/337929/war-against-black-men-lee-habeeb To fix that problem, we need wide sweeping social reform in the way that young men and women are brought up by trying to regain the family nucleus and having strong father figures for young people. These problems aren't because someone has a gun, but because they have a need for acceptance, not looking weak, and want to prove themselves. Crime is an easy way to get street cred, show that they are strong, ward away people that might do you harm, and an easy way to feed yourself when you are hungry. This includes selling drugs to an extent, but I was more talking about crimes related to violence in general, not just gun violence.
given the roving bands of hooligans you feel will continue to plague the nation , it seems it would be safer overall if no one had guns
What is the name of the class that needs you to participate in an online forum? Why are you for stricter gun control? Why are guns unnecessary and what are the other means by which we can protect ourselves. Please let me know your views so I can present an intelligent discussion. If you are totally open to new views, what do you know about the reason behind the views that don't agree with you? Why are you wavering on and off for a bit, what is making you waver? Does prospering or faltering really have anything to do with gun control laws, if you have a belief one way or the other, explain why. Obama has no power to restrict guns of and by himself, he is not a diety, he is one of three equal but seperate powers of the government that answers to it's citizens so this particular question poses no particular problem. Finally why do you feel there is a need towards bipartisanship. Isn't it enough to say all sides should support the constitution and those that don't are simply wrong? Thanks so much for answering - - - Updated - - - LOL so if no one had guns there would be no crime HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
A trap?? Why? I promise you that I'm just a relatively uneducated (in terms of gun control) college student doing a project! How would you suggest fixing this monopoly of force politics-wise? So what I mean is what can the collective voting nation do to safely use and keep guns yet deter these flakes like Feinstein? Thank you for your input, by the way!!
Thanks for your reply! What do you say to people who call for strict gun control in light of the recent school shootings? How can we keep our guns yet try and curb needless violence?
I don't know, to be honest. I guess I was just raised in a Democratic community and my parents especially told me that guns were bad and the less guns we have, the less crime. Reading here, however, definitely sways me the other way. I'm sorry if I come off as uneducated and flimsy - I'm still pretty young and I hope this can genuinely help to stabilize my views! Can I ask you what DEFINITE problems will arise if we have more strict gun control? Thank you!
It's an honors English (and CAS) class called Political Rhetoric and Deliberation. This is part of our bluntly named deliberation unit, and one of the things we have to do is participate in an online deliberation of some sort. I replied to another post answering this...I really don't know, haha. What I think is the source is from my parents and community - my hometown is one of the most violent cities in the nation. Coming from the nice suburbs there, every murder in the city came with a call for less guns and I think I unfortunately became a lemming and followed them. Seeing how much crime has come from guns just makes me wonder, ya know? Though I assume at this point it's virtually impossible to stop crimes like the ones I have encountered and instead we need to boost self-defense ideas. What's making me waver is definitely coming to a humongous college full of diversity - and this class has really helped to broaden my views. The more I read up on gun control, the more I go against the grain of my parents. I've talked to some wonderful people as well who give me reasons (like you kind folks here) why guns aren't as scary as I was taught they were! My take is that if we have bipartisanship we can end the gun control debate once and for all and focus on other important issues that may take longer to debate. If that makes sense. But you have a very good point - the Constitution is the final answer for laws, so we might as well follow it! Thank you
No need to apologize, its not a situation where one could say one is an expert. There is no corolation between strict gun control and rise in crime, however there is direct proof to show its inneffectiveness. One reason why I believe gun control is bad is because it only effects those who actually follow the law, and may cause others who would usually follow the law to now break it due to beleif of there god given right. Criminals do not obey the law, so why do they think imposing new ones will change that. Onto some stats, UK and Australia banned and confiscated 600,000+ guns each, and this is how there murder rates look before and after. View attachment 18680 View attachment 18681 Now note the spike a couple of years after the bans for each country. You will see that they do eventually fall, but in that time frame, just about all nations murder rates have fallen. Meanwhile, here in the US, without strict gun control, our murder rate has been falling drasticaly and gun ownership has been going through the roof. It kinda proves the more guns=more murder theory away. Here is a little tid bit for you also. The very guns that are on the chopping block, these "assault weapons" (which is just a normal sporting rifle dressed up to LOOK like a military rifle) is used in a ridiculously low percentage of gun murders. Do some serious research, take what the media has to say with a grain of salt, they are just as uneducated and biased as the polititions who are trying to systematicly strip Americans of there birth rights, starting with the second amendment which protects all of our rights.
