Is sea level rising and whyare

Yet not one tide gauge worldwide shows any acceleration.

 

Maybe maybe not.

https://notrickszone.com/2018/02/04...or-quality-data-from-office-perps-ipcc-false/

 

More on that.

"One of his most shocking discoveries was why the IPCC has been able to show sea levels rising by 2.3mm a year. Until 2003, even its own satellite-based evidence showed no upward trend. But suddenly the graph tilted upwards because the IPCC's favoured experts had drawn on the finding of a single tide-gauge in Hong Kong harbour showing a 2.3mm rise. The entire global sea-level projection was then adjusted upwards by a "corrective factor" of 2.3mm, because, as the IPCC scientists admitted, they "needed to show a trend".

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment...sea-levels-is-the-greatest-lie-ever-told.html

 

It does not seem plausible to me
Sea level rise varies in a way that erosion does not
Erosion has been a more or less historically common factor

Also, were that so massive as to be the cause of sea level rise.... massive amounts of eroded material would be colossally more apparent at the mouths of rivers

 

The reason New Orleans is sinking is due to controlling the river not allowing sedimentation.

 

You are presenting a link to the views of a dr morner.... presumably thinking his views are credible
For what it is worth, this guy is also famous for promoting dowsing

1995, Mörner gave several courses in dowsing at Stockholm University in the summer program, and also outside of the university. [2] He claimed that dowsing could be used not only to find water, but also to discover Curry and Hartmann lines.
​

So i am not convinced of his usefulness as a scientific research reference.

 

Have a link for that? Looks interesting. I googled it and came up empty except for a warmer blog making the claim you just did. Probably where you got it.
Typical response of attempted trashing of a non believer though.
As for dowsing for water it really does work. A different subject but a fascinating one really. I have had several wells dowsed and the guy told me how deep I'd hit water and how much I'd get gpm and was right on every time. Unexplainable but I witnessed it with my own eyes. Interesting part is it was done for free by the driller so I know it wasn't a scam. Also I could see the sticks bend like a fishing pole as the guy pulled up and related resistance to depth and amount. He offered dowsing on a take it in in leave it basis no charge and I took it. A friend of mine got a dry hole on his property and I told him about my driller who went to his hundred acres and dowsed an underground stream at 120 feet with 10gpm. It was only a few hundred yards from the dry hole. More going on in this world than we can currently explain but I'll bet there's some scientific explanation for why dowsing works waiting to be found.
More on this fascinating subject.

"Now comes a massive set of data that suggests there may be some validity to dowsers' claims. The encouraging words are contained in a study financed by the German government and published in the Journal Of Scientific Exploration, http://www.jse.com/betz_toc.html, which is a peer-reviewed scientific journal published at Stanford University.

The project was conducted by the Deutsche Gesellschaft fur Technische Zusammenarbeit in the hope of finding cheaper and more reliable ways of locating drinking water supplies in Third World countries.

Researchers analyzed the successes and failures of dowsers in attempting to locate water at more than 2000 sites in arid regions of Sri Lanka, Zaire, Kenya, Namibia and Yemen over a 10-year period. To do this, researchers teamed geological experts with experienced dowsers and then set up a scientific study group to evaluate the results. Drill crews guided by dowsers didn't hit water every time, but their success rate was impressive. In Sri Lanka, for example, they drilled 691 holes and had an overall success rate of 96 percent."
"In hundreds of cases the dowsers were able to predict the depth of the water source and the yield of the well to within 10 percent or 20 percent," says Hans-Dieter Betz, a physicist at the University of Munich, who headed the research group.

"We carefully considered the statistics of these correlations, and they far exceeded lucky guesses," he says. What's more, virtually all of the sites in Sri Lanka were in regions where the odds of finding water by random drilling were extremely low. As for a USGS notion that dowsers get subtle clues from the landscape and geology, Betz points out that the underground sources were often more than 100 ft. deep and so narrow that misplacing the drill only a few feet would mean digging a dry hole."

"There is ample evidence that humans can detect small amounts of energy. All creatures with eyes can detect extremely small amounts of electromagnetic energy at visible light wavelengths. Some researchers believe the dark-adapted human eye can detect a single photon, the smallest measurable quantity of energy. Biologists also have found nonvisual electric and magnetic sensing organs in creatures from bacteria to sharks, fish and birds. Physiologists, however, have yet to find comparable structures in humans.

Betz offers no theories of how dowsers come by their skill and prefers to confine his speculation to his data. "There are two things that I am certain of after 10 years of field research," he says. "A combination of dowsing and modern techniques can be both more successful, and far less expensive, than we had thought."

https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a3199/1281661/

 

Some skeptics argue that sea levels are not rising, but in fact the ground is sinking. It is unclear why this is happening, they will make their point and explain it i presume​

It is perfectly clear why the ground is sinking. We have been pumping out more groundwater than we should. Parts of California are drastically sinking. As is Jakarta, and other places in Indonesia, China, Japan, and most other coastal areas where there are massive amounts of people. Population explosions in the developing world is one of the culprits.
Sea levels are rising. How much of that is from land masses sinking, ground water run-off into the oceans raising the sea level, and how much of it is global warming caused isn't known. Yet environmentalists won't mention the land masses sinking. Its all global warming. Its a scam. To admit that too much pumping of ground water is at least part of the cause would mean that people in places like Jakarta are at least partially responsible. The problem is caused locally (over population), and that is a problem for those who are trying to extort billions from America for the rising sea levels.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nils-Axel_Mörner

I see that you do not always require proof

Yes, non dowsers can create similar effect
But if i went out with a dowsing rod... nothing would happen
Kinda sounds like what happens with a Ouija board to me

Well, it is getting off topic
I will only say that even if we agree that humans are able to detect such things....
there is still no obvious connection between that ability and a dowsing rod

If humans can do this, i see no added value of using a dowsing rod
Nor even a remote scientific logic
And the fact that you are willing to (correctly or incorrectly) accept dowsing makes me wonder about your stringent standards of proof in the case of AGW

 

Difference is my acceptance of dowsing is just my personal opinion and I would certainly never attempt to create and force public policy on other people based on that belief as you would with your blind acceptance of AGW and it's associated rules and regulations and even laws that you would force on the rest of us. That requires hard and irrefutable evidence.

 

Thanks to modern instruments, we are able to measure distances very accurately (ie GPS)
There are satellites in the sky that can measure land subsiding, and rising, and yes sea levels

Yes you are correct that subsidence is in some cases involved in apparent sea level rise. But, of course measured sea level rise have happened long before we aggressively pumped sub surface water

As I mentioned, modern instruments enable such measurements and calculations... for instance, we know how much the central valley of california has fallen

Have you actually searched to verify your assertion?
Do you want me to find a link demonstrating that assertion is untrue. Here is just one of many

https://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2003/of03-337/global.html

 

Of course there is a major difference
Your views on dowsing impact only yourself
Where as ... if it is the case that AGW is substantially true...that will impact future humanity in potentially devastating ways

You keep commenting about blind acceptance and tour assertion that there is “no evidence”
Whether or not the AGW theories are ultimately correct, it is grossly disingenuous to claim that there is “no evidence”. The whole reason that i started this thread about sea level rise is that it seems to me that the chain of evidence is neither complicated, nor disputable. We have historical records about sea levels, we have good instruments that can measure sea levels from space, and (according to you) sea level rise is caused by melting ice.., and heat is the only cause for melting ice.... it is not a complex argument

The simple fact is that people operate on their best guesses all of the time... so your version of irrefutable proof is not required. And democracies respond to the will of the people... so setting public policy depends convincing enough of the public.... it does not depend upon the fools errand of trying convince you or gaining your approval

 

A simple enough test to determine if erosion is one factor in rising sea level is to take a glass 1/2 full of water and begin pouring in sand.
I promise that the water level will rise with the addition of sand or a rock (i.e. sediment) into the glass of water.

 

I think there is no question what will happen in your experiment. The question is how much sand you are dumping in

So lets do a different mental experiment
Lets say that you are correct, lets say that sufficient sediment is deposited every year to raise the ocean 2mm

Lets say this happens for 100,000 year
That would be 2,000 meters, correct?

Lets round that to a mile
Now lets figure a million years
1000 miles of sea level rise

I am guessing this is not entirely feasible

 

I wouldn't presume to know the rate at which erosion contributes to the rising of the sea level.
I was simply suggesting that it is one of the factors contributing to the sea's rising in addition to the melting of the ice caps and glaciers.

At any rate, it's fascinating to think that, long ago, man could actually walk from France to England. It's equally fascinating to think how many ancient cities are currently underwater.

 

Big if and basing energy, economic and social policies on an if is to base those things on hysteria which never ends well.

The complex argument is whether or not man is contributing to warming in any meaningful amount and there is no evidence of this hypothesis. Altering our behavior when our behavior has no effect is a fools errand that puts lives and livelihood at jeopardy for no good reason.

People may operate on best guesses but to enact rules, regulations and laws that will have profound negative effects on mankind based on a best guess is unacceptable. For that we need irrefutable evidence or at least we should and I will concede your point that if you get enough useful idiots sucked into your hysteria you may well get rules, regulations and laws passed and that is the danger here isn't it. That's why those of us not so gullible, so easily duped and resistant to the sheep mentality must continue to speak out and that's why those on your side want so desperately to shut us up to the point that some have even suggested making it illegal to speak out against AGW.

 

Many people tend to think earth has suddenly become this stable even stagnant planet after billions of years of constant change. Continents are still moving and land masses are rising and sinking as they always have and always will. It's impossible to factor this into sea level with any accuracy so it instead gets ignored in favor of the latest greatest sky is falling and man is doing it hysteria. Life's so much simpler that way.
What effect might this have on sea levels I wonder?

Movement of continents

Image: sciencescene.com
Continental Drift. The continents are moving, along with the sea floor, at about 2 inches/year.

 

Many people believe the earth is stagnant.... scientists are not among them

Why is that so?
You would not even know about these movements if scientists had not been studying this topic

You quote a source of 2 inches per year
Presumably the similar techniques are used to identify various aspects of changes in the earth

You seem to have changed your opinion
From.... melting ice causes sea level rises
To... it is all too complicated to figure out

 

You seem to think there's a singular cause for everything. Only melting ice raises sea levels and only man melts ice. LOL

 

Yes, and i was just trying to point out that if if sediment was an important factor.... it would result in colossal sea level changes over time.... which therefore implies that sediments and erosion are likely r9 be relatively small factors in this issue

 

No, i do not think one factor causes everything
You are the person who said melting ice is responsible for sea level rise
I said that heat energy is required to melt ice
And if ice is melting faster.... there has to be more heat
And the only source of added heat that you and i have identified is increased greenhouse gasses.... where ever they come from

I have been willing to discuss sediment and erosion as a major source of sea level rise... and have simply pointed out the long term implications were that true (one mile of sea level rise in 100,000 years)

You have pointed out that earth movement... and i would respond that this would not explain satellite measurements... nor would it be possible to achieve simultaneous sea level increases all over the globe via the mechanism that you identified

We have been talking about accelerating sea level rise... not AGW... except that YOU suggested that sea level rises are due to melting ice... i accept YOUR proposition, and then respond by noticing that ice only melts in response to heat, and therefore we have to find where the heat s coming from

AGW is the only source either of us has identified

 

Double post

 

It's kind of obvious that melting ice increases sea level as it has been doing since the last ice age ended and ice from it has been melting. Somehow you confuse acknowledgement of this fact with my thinking that is the only thing in the world that effects sea level?
Now where did this heat come from that ended the last ice age? Short answer is nobody knows for sure but one theory is continental movement and the effect of that on ocean currents.I
As for your AGW, you identified that a cause not me.

 

Excellent point!

There are obviously many factors at play in explaining why the oceans are rising beside the latest "greatest sky is falling and man is doing it hysteria".
Since, as you suggest, tectonic plates or entire land masses themselves are moving, it would seem hard to find a static point from which to measure the rising of the oceans.