Is there room for compromise in gun rights vs gun control?

Discussion in 'Opinion POLLS' started by modernpaladin, May 10, 2017.

  1. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member

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    Hypothetical here. Given that handguns overwhelmingly make up the majority of guns used in crime, would you support (or, at least, not resist) legislation aimed at curbing their use in crime if there were sufficient concessions made 'on the other side?' Ill propose an example:
    Legislation: Mandatory registration of all sales/purchases of handguns (and handguns only) nationwide.
    Provisions:
    -CCW holders bump to the top of the list if there are any bureaucratic backlogs.
    -The registration will be funded entirely via donations from gun control groups, foundations and individual supporters of gun control. *You* do not pay a cent into it, or it is anulled. If the funding runs out, it is anulled.
    -The registration is a trial run. It runs for, lets say, 4 years. After which the law dies, and must be relegislated based upon a cost/benefit analysis of the success of the 4 year trial run.
    -So long as this trial run registration is in effect, no new gun control laws may be put before congress, or this trial registration law is immediately anulled.

    I know registration is a logical fallacy, and I know the concessions list here would be entirely unnacceptible to the majority of the gun control crowd. This is simply a 'proof of concept' post. Are we 'gun nuts' open to the concept of working with those who truly seek 'sensible gun laws' even when we think they are doomed to failure? Are there other concessions you would add to this list that would persuade you to let the trial run pass? Or is there no room for any compromise with the left on guns whatsoever?

    What say you, fellow gun nuts?
     
  2. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why would we have to compromise on a right recognized and protected in the Bill of Rights?

    Do we barter for free speech?

    Do we have to make concessions to not have the government quarter troops in our houses?

    No.

    The problem is not guns, the problem is the "Justice System" and recidivism.

    The problem is the criminals walking our streets, and the revolving door that puts them back on the streets, combined with a system that doesn't even charge them for breaking existing laws.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2017
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  3. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough. How about a better compromise. An additional provision:
    -The ban on 'armor peircing' ammo (solid copper bullets, APDS, etc) is lifted. You lose some freedom, but gain some back that was previously taken. This could set an important 'give-take' precedent in gun control legislation.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2017
  4. NCspotter

    NCspotter Active Member

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    Someone explain how you "curb" the use of handguns while not infringing on the Second Amendment.

    Also, if this is supposed to be a poll, I don't see any poll choices.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2017
  5. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member

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    meh, i dunno how to set that up. if you would support it, just say 'yes'
     
  6. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Well-Known Member

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    Considering the overwhelming absence of prosecutions for various firearm-related offenses that are already codified into existing law, it would be illogical to pursue any further restrictions on firearms, as they are just as unlikely to be enforced.

    http://content.thirdway.org/publica...nforcement_Gap_-_Federal_Gun_Laws_Ignored.pdf

    Conclusion #1 – There is a vast enforcement gap between the level of federal gun crimes and the number of federal prosecutions.
    Over the past three fiscal years, prosecutors have filed 25,002 federal gun crime cases. During the same period:

    • More than 330,000 guns used in violent gun crimes showed telltale signs of black market trafficking;

    • 420,000 firearms were stolen;

    • 450,000 individuals lied on the federal background check form used to determine eligibility for a gun;

    • 93,000 gun crimes were committed by those under the age of 18; and

    • Thousands of guns with obliterated serial numbers were recovered by law enforcement.

    It is a violation of federal law to traffic in firearms, steal guns, lie on the background check form, sell to minors, and obliterate serial numbers. This translates into well over a million crimes where it is likely or certain that a federal law was broken. The 25,002 prosecutions
    represent a ratio of about 2 federal prosecutions for every 100 federal gun crimes.


    Until such time that the justice system actually starts making use of what laws it already possesses, there is no reason for either them, or anyone else involved in the process, to be asking for more.
     
  7. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No.

    Those who support the 2A need to move fully away from the "tit for tat" of justification, it merely lends credence to the glaringly incorrect perception that the gun control argument has some merit.

    Those who attack the 2A have no interest in fighting crime, if they did, existing gun laws would be used to punish those who break gun laws.

    Firearm violations are the first thing dropped in criminal proceedings.

    In Chicago, where firearm violence is rampant, they dropped more than 13,000 firearm related offenses in 7 years.

    Felons in possession of firearms, illegal firearm sales, and other felony firearm offenses.

    http://chicagoreporter.com/thousand...-being-dismissed-cook-county-criminal-courts/

    We need to take our Constitutionally protected rights back, and demand that our governments from the local to the federal recognize those rights.

    Zero compromise. Zero compliance. Zero acceptance of the government illegally infringing on our right to keep and bear arms.
     
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  8. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member

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    It wouldnt be illogical if we mandated that in order to pass new legislation, old (innefective) legislation must be sacrificed, so we get some lost rights returned in the process.
     
  9. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We already have the right.

    They're illegally infringing on those rights.
     
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  10. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member

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    What if we traded handgun registration for full-auto legalization, or something else that we're woefully unlikely to get re-decriminalized?
     
  11. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member

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    We may have the right, but not the ability. No one is standing up in sufficient numbers to counter the gun rights we've already lost. This could be a way to get some *back* without a civil war.
     
  12. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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    I couldn't support any legislation merely aimed at curbing the use of handguns in crime, as any silly ineffectual law fits that description. Registration can't actually curb any violent crime.

    However, I would entertain registration under two conditions:

    1. That the NFA is repealed in its entirety, permanently, along with any state laws that limit ownership of classes of weapons, with Constitutional carry imposed throughout the land, and

    2. All levels of government are forbidden to ban any firearms, and anyone holding government office who suggests such a ban will be immediately and permanently removed from office and made to serve 10 years at hard labor. Anyone in the government who actually tried to confiscate based on the registry could be shot down without recourse or criminal charges.

    Maybe.
     
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  13. Vegas giants

    Vegas giants Well-Known Member

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    Just here to get alerts for now
     
  14. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The NFA is already being hammered at. Hard.

    There is a full court press on it as we speak.

    BATFE has already had to come out and admit that braces on AR pistols cannot be considered a stock, so firing from the shoulder is not "making an SBR".

    Suppressors being removed from the NFA is also gaining momentum.

    What, really, is the point of the NFA laws? They did not ban anything, they TAXED it. A prohibitive tax on our right to keep and bear arms. If such a tax were placed on abortions or voting....what would happen?
     
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  15. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    Just curious, why do you believe that a natural right can be negotiated? Would you believe that the government doesn't actually have to allow you to confront your accuser? Would you feel that government should be able to tell you which religion you must practice? How about deciding that only the speech government approves can be used? Why would the federal government ever restrict itself from attempting to legislate for those powers not granted to it?

    Your slope is treacherous. You line the path with what you feel is a good intention, and condemn the rest of us for your myopic thought bubble straw man.
     
  16. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    At this point in time, firearm ownership is growing by leaps and bounds. More people are getting their CCW's and taking training than ever before.

    Constitutional carry continues to grow, the places we are not authorized to carry is shrinking.

    There are only a few states where gun control laws are pervasive.....but they're not stopping the crime. How many incidents have we had in California the past few years? A few more BART mass robberies and people will be demanding their CCWs.

    Being able to protect yourself is not a political issue. No anti gun laws have stopped crime.

    We have a full head of steam like never before.

    Now is not the time to give them anything.

    Demand your rights.
     
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  17. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member

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    i was not aware. thats good :)
     
  18. Vegas giants

    Vegas giants Well-Known Member

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    Well I think my point has been made. No matter how hard you tried to sell it.....and you did try hard....they won't buy it. There is no room for compromise
     
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  19. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  20. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Well-Known Member

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    Considering the total failure of the registry of rifles and shotguns in the nation of Canada, with as few firearms as they had to deal with, any attempts at enacting a firearms registry in the united states would be doomed to failure from the very start. There are simply too many firearms currently in existence to effectively register.
     

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