Islam Thread

More runnish from Wanren :

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"On this question of what language Jesus spoke , there is considerable difference of opinion among scholars. However, concerning languages used in Palestine when Jesus Christ was (supposed to have been ) on earth, Professor G. Ernest Wright states: “Various languages were undoubtedly to be heard on the streets of the major cities. Greek and Aramaic were evidently the common tongues, and most of the urban peoples could probably understand both even in such ‘modern’ or ‘western’ cities as Caesarea and Samaria where Greek was the more common. Roman soldiers and officials might be heard conversing in Latin, while orthodox Jews may well have spoken a late variety of Hebrew with one another, a language that we know to have been neither classical Hebrew nor Aramaic, despite its similarities to both.” Commenting further, on the language spoken by Jesus Christ,

Professor Wright says: “The language spoken by Jesus has been much debated. We have no certain way of knowing whether he could speak Greek or Latin, but in his teaching ministry he regularly used either Aramaic or the highly Aramaized popular Hebrew. When Paul addressed the mob in the Temple, it is said that he spoke Hebrew (Acts 21:40). Scholars generally have taken this to mean Aramaic, but it is quite possible that a popular Hebrew was then the common tongue among the Jews.”—Biblical Archaeology, 1963, p. 243.


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I did read my Bible and I suggest you read the Bible. And God wrote upon the tablets the Ten Comamndments

Exodus 24:12 And the LORD said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written ; that thou mayest teach them.

Exodus 17-14
14 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Write this on a scroll as something to be remembered and make sure that Joshua hears it, because I will completely blot out the name of Amalek from under heaven.”

Clear proof that God who is also Jesus Christ is not illiterate as you would like to claim. Now, who is being stupid and illiterate, are you illiterate? You have only proof that all the rubbish, crap, etc. that you have thrown on me are actually a true reflection or garbage from your yard

 

I believe you're forgetting something, Marlowe:

...So what was the real reason William Tyndale was condemned? Was translating the Bible into English illegal? The answer is no. The law that was passed in 1408 was in reaction to another infamous translator, John Wycliff. Wycliff had produced a translation of the Bible that was corrupt and full of heresy. It was not an accurate rendering of sacred Scripture.

Both the Church and the secular authorities condemned it and did their best to prevent it from being used to teach false doctrine and morals. Because of the scandal it caused, the Synod of Oxford passed a law in 1408 that prevented any unauthorized translation of the Bible into English and also forbade the reading of such unauthorized translations.

It is a fact usually ignored by Protestant historians that many English versions of Scripture existed before Wycliff, and these were authorized and perfectly legal (see Where We Got the Bible by Henry Graham, chapter 11, "Vernacular Scriptures Before Wycliff"). Also legal would be any future authorized translations. And certainly reading these translations was not only legal but encouraged. All this law did was prevent any private individual from publishing his own translation of Scripture without the approval of the Church.

Which, as it turns out, is just what William Tyndale did. Tyndale was an English priest of no great fame who desperately desired to make his own English translation of the Bible. The Church denied him for several reasons.

First, it saw no real need for a new English translation of Scripture at that time. In fact, booksellers were having a hard time selling the print editions of the Bible that they already had. Laws had to be enacted to force people to buy them.

Second, we must remember that this was a time of great strife and confusion for the Church in Europe. The Reformation had turned the continent into a volatile place. So far, England had managed to remain relatively unscathed, and the Church wanted to keep it that way. It was thought that adding a new English translation would only add confusion and distraction where focus was needed.

Lastly, if the Church had decided to provide a new English translation of Scripture, Tyndale would not have been the man chosen to do it. He was known as only a mediocre scholar and had gained a reputation as a priest of unorthodox opinions and a violent temper. He was infamous for insulting the clergy, from the pope down to the friars and monks, and had a genuine contempt for Church authority. In fact, he was first tried for heresy in 1522, three years before his translation of the New Testament was printed. His own bishop in London would not support him in this cause.

Finding no support for his translation from his bishop, he left England and went to Worms, where he fell under the influence of Martin Luther. There in 1525 he produced a translation of the New Testament that was swarming with textual corruption. He willfully mistranslated entire passages of sacred Scripture in order to condemn orthodox Catholic doctrine and support the new Lutheran ideas. The bishop of London claimed that he could count over 2,000 errors in the volume (and this was just the New Testament).

And we must remember that this was not merely a translation of Scripture. His text included a prologue and notes that were so full of contempt for the Catholic Church and the clergy that no one could mistake his obvious agenda and prejudice. Did the Catholic Church condemn this version of the Bible? Of course it did.

The secular authorities condemned it as well. Anglicans are among the many today who laud Tyndale as the "father of the English Bible." But it was their own founder, King Henry VIII, who in 1531 declared that, "the translation of the Scripture corrupted by William Tyndale should be utterly expelled, rejected, and put away out of the hands of the people."

So troublesome did Tyndale's Bible prove to be that in 1543 — after his break with Rome — Henry VIII again decreed that "all manner of books of the Old and New Testament in English, being of the crafty, false, and untrue translation of Tyndale . . . shall be clearly and utterly abolished, extinguished, and forbidden to be kept or used in this realm."

Ultimately, it was the secular authorities who proved to be the end for Tyndale. He was arrested and tried (and sentenced to die) in the court of the Holy Roman Emperor in 1536. His translation of the Bible was heretical because it contained heretical ideas — not because the act of translation was heretical in and of itself. In fact, the Catholic Church would produce a translation of the Bible into English a few years later (the Douay-Rheims version, whose New Testament was released in 1582 and whose Old Testament was released in 1609).

When discussing the history of biblical translations, it is common for people to toss around names like Tyndale and Wycliff. But the full story is seldom given. This present case of a gender-inclusive edition of the Bible is a wonderful opportunity for Fundamentalists to reflect and realize that the reason they don't approve of this new translation is the same reason that the Catholic Church did not approve of Tyndale's or Wycliff'ss. These were corrupt translations, made with an agenda, and not accurate renderings of sacred Scripture...

http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?id=4749&CFID=142953456&CFTOKEN=95122738

...but aren't we discussing Islam or is this in some way a detraction?

 

Really?

John 8 3-11 (NJB)

3 The scribes and Pharisees brought a woman along who had been caught committing adultery; and making her stand there in the middle 4 they said to Jesus, 'Master, this woman was caught in the very act of committing adultery, 5 and in the Law Moses has ordered us to stone women of this kind. What have you got to say?' 6 They asked him this as a test, looking for an accusation to use against him. But Jesus bent down and started writing on the ground with his finger. 7 As they persisted with their question, he straightened up and said, 'Let the one among you who is guiltless be the first to throw a stone at her.' 8 Then he bent down and continued writing on the ground. 9 When they heard this they went away one by one, beginning with the eldest, until the last one had gone and Jesus was left alone with the woman, who remained in the middle. 10 Jesus again straightened up and said, 'Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?' 11 'No one, sir,' she replied. 'Neither do I condemn you,' said Jesus. 'Go away, and from this moment sin no more.'

Jewish Scripture and the Literacy of Jesus
Craig A. Evans

http://lightoftorah.net/files/articles/Jewishapproaches.pdf

Enjoy, Detractor

Oh. You may want to consult ancient Hebrew education requirements for children.

http://www.jewishmuseum.cz/en/avice7.htm

 

Here is another link you may enjoy:

http://bibleresources.americanbible...-bible/bible-history/education-ancient-israel

...Exile

Jerusalem was destroyed by the Babylonians in 586/587 B.C.. Those Hebrews deported to Babylon were confronted with unfamiliar customs and mores, causing, on one hand, cultural accommodation and yet, on the other, a fierce attempt to stabilize their tradition, hence the Priestly Code.

The family was still the primary learning center in the tradition, even during the 70 years of the Exile. The Hebrews regarded children as a gift from God and a great amount of energy was given to educating them for the future. Parents were responsible for their conduct and were the primary teachers. Both parents were responsible but the primary responsibility in the patriarchal culture was given to the father, although passages such as Tobit 1.8 indicate that women (in this case, Tobit’s grandmother) also instructed children.

The religious cycle of the tradition as seen in the home provided many teachable moments for the young Jewish child. Festivals and feasts were a prominent teaching tool. Passover, the Feast of Weeks, and the Festival of Tabernacles provided opportunities for children to ask questions and to learn.

During this time, however, more formal education began to emerge. Boys were taught how to read and write; elementary education in childhood taught the Jewish boy to read and memorize portions of the Hebrew Bible, especially the Pentateuch. Primary education gave the Jewish boy a thorough knowledge of Mosaic history. Higher education was given to the detailed study of the Law--its practice and definition. Girls were given instruction in domestic duties, such as spinning, weaving, the preparation of food, caring for children. Women were also formally trained in such concerns as midwifery and medicine.

Other educational opportunities existed for women ,especially those of the wealthier classes. Tobit’s grandmother (cited above) had some prior training. There is debate in the Mishnah on the education of women, meaning that some rabbis did consider women appropriate candidates for schooling; the Beruriah traditions similarly support this view of women’s education. The Babata archives present evidence of an educated women, as do the Elephantine Papyri (on Mibtachiah)...

Post-Exile

Preserving the nation through religious education became even more important during post-exilic Judaism. An elaborate system of education was constructed. Priests maintained a primary educator role, devoting their duties to administration of the Temple. In time, however, as the temple functions became even more complex their role as teacher was given over more and more to the scribes. Likewise, as the tradition strengthened in numbers and purpose, a more complex educational system was also developed. Where before, the educational needs had primarily been served by the tribe and the family, in this period education became universal and compulsory for Jewish boys and men.

The role of priest and prophet as teacher began to decline. The role of scribe emerged as the primary teaching class. The scribes looked on their work as holy. They were given the sacred task of transmitting the laws given by Yahweh. They interpreted the laws for the people, guided religious thought and education, established elementary schools and colleges, and taught public and private instruction. Not all scribes were involved in religious tasks. They also served as notaries, lawyers in secular matters, and secretaries.

Two great names are associated with Jewish education. First, Simon ben-Shetach, brother of Queen Alexandra (reigned from 78-69 B.C.) was the one to declare elementary education compulsory. Second, Joshua ben-Gamala, who was High Priest from 63-65 A.D., established that teachers should be appointed for every district and that children should be brought to the appointed teachers at the age of six or seven years. Although there was education before Joshua, this High Priest reformed it and made education universal and more effective...

 

When Umar wanted to kill Prophet Muhammad !​

Umar was twenty seven when the Holy Prophet began his mission. Young Umar was one of those who did not care to listen to the message of Islam. He was for the old way of life. As years went by, Islam made a slow headway.
This deeply bothered Umar. Whatever the Pagan Makkans did, still %95 of those who reverted to Islam were steadfast and never went back to their old faith. One of Umar’s own maid-servants became a Muslim. He beat her as much as he could, but she would not give up the new faith.

At last in the sixth year of the Mission, a number of Muslims left for Abyssinia. This made Omar boil with rage. “Here is a man,” he thought to himself “who has split the people. People were happy. This man appeared on the scene and has put sons against their father and brothers against sisters. Now his followers are running away to another land. Surely Muhammad is the cause of all trouble. I must slay him and put an end to the trouble.”

With this resolve Umar drew his sword and set out to kill the Holy Prophet. On the way, he met a friend who asked him why he looked so upset. Umar told him what he was going to do. “You better take care of your own kin first,” said the friend, “Your sister and her husband have embraced Islam.”

These words changed the direction of Umar’s anger. He went straight to the house of his sister, Fatima. He knocked at the door. Someone was reciting the Qur’an inside. Fatima was terrified when she heard Umar’s voice. She hid the portion of the Qur’an she was reading and opened the door.

“What was it that you were reciting just now?” Umar demanded.
“Oh nothing,” said the sister.
“Why nothing?” he shouted in rage.
“I have heard it alright. I know you both have accepted Muhammad’s religion.”
Saying this, he began to beat his brother-in-law, Saeed. Fatima ran to his help and Umar busted her in the head. Her head began to bleed. This made the couple bold. “Yes, we have become Muslims,” they shouted at Umar. “Do what you will.”

The sight of the bleeding sister deeply moved Umar. Fatima was such a loving sister! Surely there must be some great truth in the Qur’an which had won her innocent heart. “Would you let me have a look at the Qur’an?” said Omar.

Fatima handed him the few pages of the book she had.
Umar sat down to study the pages which had the first 15 verses written from chapter 20 (Ta-Ha). Soon his face changed. His anger cooled down. The fear of God gripped his heart. He wept and declared, “Surely this is the word of God. I bear witness that Muhammad (peace be upon him) is the Messenger of God.”
Umar was again on his way to the place of the Holy Prophet. He was not going to slay him but to embrace his faith. This was the power of the Qur’an that those of us who don’t speak Arabic can’t realize.

The Holy Prophet was sitting in the company of some men. They saw Umar coming and became worried. Hamzah, the Uncle of the Prophet who had accepted Islam days before this said “Don’t worry if he tries anything I will kill him with his own sword. When Umar arrived the Prophet (PBUH) asked, “Umar, what brings you here?”

“O Prophet of God!” replied Umar, “I have come to embrace Islam.”
Great was the joy of the Holy Prophet and his followers. Loud shouts of “Allahu Akbar (God is Greatest)” filled the air of Mecca. Soon everyone knew that Umar was no longer an enemy of Islam. It was a great day for Islam because one of its bitterest enemies had become its staunch follower.

More about the story:
http://www.the-faith.com/?p=594

 

Bravo for that comment

I am truly sick of the Hasbara and Jihadwatch and Memri posters too

I have found an excellent article that will be a great read for anyone wondering about religion in Egypt right now.

Anyone who is interested in the truth as opposed to the lies.

It's written by a Coptic Christian!!!!!

A scholar whose father was an Evangelical in Minya one of the Christian hot spots.

A great analysis of the real Egypt.

It's a long article but a fantastic one and really to all who want the truth a great read!

http://asenseofbelonging.org/2011/04/14/rafik-habib-on-sharia-state-and-christianity/

OJLeb what do you think of it?

Also note!!! the 1970's reference!!! and what Egypt was going through regionally then that changed the structure of Egyptian society!

 

Abu

Have you read and compared the scriptures of the Torah, Tanakh & Bible to the Qur'an? You'll find there are over 2,000 errors in the Qur'an. Not all Mohammed's errors were abrogated. There is also the fact that no matter how hard Muslim scholars try, history cannot be rewritten.

So as much as some religious folks would like to feel all warm and fuzzy about Islam, the fact of the matter is Mohammed is a false prophet.

Shalom.

 

Definitely worth reading.

Quite an... unorthadox view of Sharia in Egypt. And from a Christian scholar at that. It gets you thinking.

He refutes many claims against Islamic states you often see. How anybody could argue against the Egypt he describes just proves they don't actually care about Egyptians.

And I like how he differentiated between Egyptian Islamic state and one like Saudi Arabia.

With Mursi winning it will be interesting too see what happens in Egypt starting July or whenever the military junta ends.

 

To the two trolls trying to steer this thread off course, feel free to unvent all your misdirected and often times irrelevant hateful opinions in an appropriate thread.

This is not it.

Thank you.

 

An excellent story.

Jazak'Allah khayr for sharing

 

Live by the sword, shall die by the sword.

 

Trolls? Hardly. There is a difference between deception of which Mohammed condones and truth, which both Hebrew & Christian scripture provide. There are no abrogated lines w/i the Holy Books of both faiths. Yet, there are thousands w/i in the Qur'an, and thousands more never corrected.

Point being, neither true prophets make those types of errors nor do they elevate themselves above the law. So you'll need to learn how to deal with truth in lieu of deception.

Thank you.

 

Since Ramadan is 30 days away, I will start a countdown and with each day give some quick facts about the holy month.

For today... Some information about the Islamic calendar.

*The Holy Month of Ramadan is the 9th month of the Islamic calendar, also called the Hijri calendar.

*The Hijri calendar, like the Grigorian calendar, has 12 months in a year. But there are 354 days - with 355 in a leap year.

*Because the number of days are not the same as the Gregorian calendar, the month of Ramadan shifts every year.

*This year it begins on July 20th and end the 18th of August.

*The Hijri calendar is a lunar calendar, meaning instead of season the calendar uses moon phases.

*The First year of the calendar is 622, the time that Muhammad (pbuh) and the Muslims left Mecca for Medina, the Hijra.

*The year 2012 is equal to 1433 in Islamic years.

 

As well as share information about Ramadan, I will also share the 99 names of Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala.

In Islam, there are 99 beautiful names of Allah SWT, and each of these names describes an attribute of Allah SWT.

Sahih Muslim Book 035, Hadith Number 6476.

Chapter : The names of Allah, the Exalted, and the merit of one who enumerates them.

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) as saying: Verily, there are ninety-nine names for Allah, i.e. hundred excepting one. He who enumerates them would get into Paradise. And Hammam has made this addition on the authority of Abu Huraira who reported it from Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) that he said: "He is Odd (one) and loves odd number."

-----

Allah

The God


​

 

2000 errors compared to what?

Your not comparing to the Torah and injeel etc are you?

 

OjLeb

Have you ever wondered about that strange story about the baptism of Jesus the prophet PBUH ?

Are we the only ones wondering why would GOD need to be baptised with water in a river? as Christians see Jesus PBUH as God.

Some of those corrupted stories are just too crazy for words.


Thank God we have the Quran

 

Also IF Jesus PBUH was God then why when he was baptised did John say “I baptise you in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” Matthew 28:19

IF we was already God and part of that trinity they talk of?

If baptising in those days (remember the church was catholic at that time ( or was it? ) was to wash away the sins of Adam and Eve as they say.

Are we then to believe that God also had those sins from Adam and Eve?

Really crazy things being said for sure by Christians who dont even agree on their books. So many different versions........

 

The Holy Month of Ramadan is a time when billions of your fellow human beings fast for 30 days. But, not everybody understands why exactly we fast. Well, there are a few reasons why we fast during this blessed month...

* The Quran says,
[2:183] O you who have believed, decreed upon you is fasting as it was decreed upon those before you that you may become righteous -

As we know, Moses and Jesus (Peace and Blessings be Upon Both of Them) fasted. Moses fasted while he was receiving the Ten Commandments from Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala.And as we also know, Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him) fasted as well. The Surah continues...

[2:184] [Fasting for] a limited number of days. So whoever among you is ill or on a journey [during them] - then an equal number of days [are to be made up]. And upon those who are able [to fast, but with hardship] - a ransom [as substitute] of feeding a poor person [each day]. And whoever volunteers excess - it is better for him. But to fast is best for you, if you only knew.

And...

[2:185] The month of Ramadhan [is that] in which was revealed the Qur'an, a guidance for the people and clear proofs of guidance and criterion. So whoever sights [the new moon of] the month, let him fast it; and whoever is ill or on a journey - then an equal number of other days. Allah intends for you ease and does not intend for you hardship and [wants] for you to complete the period and to glorify Allah for that [to] which He has guided you; and perhaps you will be grateful.

* While a person is fasting, they are made less vulnerable to commit sins, for fear of breaking the fast.

* One of the major aspects of Islam is charity, or Zakat. Fasting is a way for us to connect with the poor and less fortunate. To sympathize with them, and feel compassion towards the less fortunate around us. At the end of Ramadan, during Eid al-fitr, we pay Zakat al-fitr.

* While fasting, one becomes more grateful for what Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala has given us in this life, while also remembering who we should be grateful towards.

* Some Hadith about fasting, (more here),

Sahih Bukhari :: Book# 31 :: Hadith# 118

Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah’s Apostle said, “Fasting is a shield (or a screen or a shelter). So, the person observing fasting should avoid sexual relation with his wife and should not behave foolishly and impudently, and if somebody fights with him or abuses him, he should tell him twice, ‘I am fasting.” The Prophet added, “By Him in Whose Hands my soul is, the smell coming out from the mouth of a fasting person is better in the sight of Allah than the smell of musk. (Allah says about the fasting person), ‘He has left his food, drink and desires for My sake. The fast is for Me. So I will reward (the fasting person) for it and the reward of good deeds is multiplied ten times.”

Sahih Bukhari :: Book# 31 :: Hadith# 123

Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah’s Apostle said, “When the month of Ramadan starts, the gates of the heaven are opened and the gates of Hell are closed and the devils are chained.”

 

ar-Rahman

The Most Compassionate

​

 

The Qur'an has over 2,000 errors when compared to the Torah, Tanakh, & Bible, this is AFTER most errors were already abrogated by Muslim scholars.

 

Quite simply, Jesus was baptized so that He could enter into the Melchizedek priesthood. In other words, He became the High Priest and offer Himself as a sacrifice for our sins.

מלכּ-צדק Melchizedek “King of Righteousness”

http://www.mainemediaresources.com/mpl_melchizedek.htm

Hebrews 5: 5-10 (NJB)

5 And so it was not Christ who gave himself the glory of becoming high priest, but the one who said to him: You are my Son, today I have fathered you, 6 and in another text: You are a priest for ever, of the order of Melchizedek. 7 During his life on earth, he offered up prayer and entreaty, with loud cries and with tears, to the one who had the power to save him from death, and, winning a hearing by his reverence, 8 he learnt obedience, Son though he was, through his sufferings; 9 when he had been perfected, he became for all who obey him the source of eternal salvation 10 and was acclaimed by God with the title of high priest of the order of Melchizedek.


Matthew 3: 1-17 (NJB)

1 In due course John the Baptist appeared; he proclaimed this message in the desert of Judaea, 2 'Repent, for the kingdom of Heaven is close at hand.' 3 This was the man spoken of by the prophet Isaiah when he said: A voice of one that cries in the desert, 'Prepare a way for the Lord, make his paths straight.' 4 This man John wore a garment made of camel-hair with a leather loin-cloth round his waist, and his food was locusts and wild honey. 5 Then Jerusalem and all Judaea and the whole Jordan district made their way to him, 6 and as they were baptised by him in the river Jordan they confessed their sins. 7 But when he saw a number of Pharisees and Sadducees coming for baptism he said to them, 'Brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the coming retribution? 8 Produce fruit in keeping with repentance, 9 and do not presume to tell yourselves, "We have Abraham as our father," because, I tell you, God can raise children for Abraham from these stones. 10 Even now the axe is being laid to the root of the trees, so that any tree failing to produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown on the fire. 11 I baptise you in water for repentance, but the one who comes after me is more powerful than I, and I am not fit to carry his sandals; he will baptise you with the Holy Spirit and fire. 12 His winnowing-fan is in his hand; he will clear his threshing-floor and gather his wheat into his barn; but the chaff he will burn in a fire that will never go out.'

13 Then Jesus appeared: he came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptised by John. 14 John tried to dissuade him, with the words, 'It is I who need baptism from you, and yet you come to me!' 15 But Jesus replied, 'Leave it like this for the time being; it is fitting that we should, in this way, do all that uprightness demands.' Then John gave in to him. 16 And when Jesus had been baptised he at once came up from the water, and suddenly the heavens opened and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming down on him. 17 And suddenly there was a voice from heaven, 'This is my Son, the Beloved; my favour rests on him.

You see, unlike Mohammed, Jesus does not exempt himself from God's requirement for His followers. Jesus is truly our living perfect example of a just God.

 

How are Muslims related to Abraham? What is the lineage that ties Muslims to Abraham? Do Muslims consider Allah as God of the Bible?

 

Ishmael. Ishmael. And yes.

 

Do you consider Allah to be the same as the God of the Bible? How are Muslims related to Abraham?