it's not just about wages, it's about hours & job security too

Discussion in 'Labor & Employment' started by kazenatsu, Feb 24, 2018.

  1. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    What would you use in its place?
     
  2. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't use any of the unemployment measures. I'd refer to 'good employment' (with that reflecting skills, enabling consideration of problems of underemployment). The current British regime shows how easy it is to reduce official unemployment by enabling exploitative labour relations.
     
  3. Collateral Damage

    Collateral Damage Well-Known Member

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    I'm just reading through this thread, and I come across this^^

    Do you understand where the funds for 'welfare' come from? And exactly how does that reduce 'poverty'?
     
  4. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    How does that solve the simple economic problem of a poverty inducing, lack of income that would normally be obtained from employment?

    Compensation for Capitalism's, not Socialism's, natural rate of unemployment, is simply Good capitalism.
     
  5. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    Solving for a simple poverty of income that would otherwise be obtained from employment.
     
  6. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    It should come from progressive taxes such that redistribution occurs. That can be monitored through concepts such as the social wage.

    How a boost in income reduces poverty is pretty obvious. The more interesting issue is the focus of policy: on efficiency (ensuring that income support goes to the poor) or on effectiveness (ensuring that poverty intensity falls). Measuring either is a simple, and common, empirical exercise. One just needs a poverty methodology and equivalence scale system.
     
  7. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Reference to measures such as good employment enable isolation of the problems which generate work in poverty. Britain, for example, has fed it's low skilled equilibrium. The response? Empowering trade unions, provision of public bank lending according to social return, generous welfare to encourage self employment etc etc etc.

    Policies alien to your obsessive use of the right wing NRU...
     
  8. Collateral Damage

    Collateral Damage Well-Known Member

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    So the short answer is to take from those who earned it, and give it to those who didn't.

    While temporary assistance is something a well formed society should do, it does not alleviate 'poverty'. Poverty is a position that exists when one does nothing to support themselves.
     
  9. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Actually you'll find that in many welfare systems there is no redistribution (and, if there is, it's skewed towards the middle classes through public and merit good provision). This doesn't make economic sense. This doesn't just refer to the diminishing marginal utility of income (which says a dollar is worth more to a poor person). It also refers to economic efficiency criteria. It's not surprising, for example, that countries with more generous welfare systems also have higher self employment rates (where a safety net encourages risk taking behaviour and therefore the creation of new firms).

    Why do you think countries with less generous welfare systems also have greater long term problems with poverty?
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2018
  10. squidward

    squidward Banned

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    my family did, and got no welfare assistance either.
     
  11. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    Some on the left may believe, supply side economics should be supplying us with better governance at lower cost.

    Simplifying public policies can accomplish that.

    A general tax on Firms for the unemployment compensation fund should be enough and would be much more cost effective than our current regime. The positive multiplier effect for unemployment compensation has already been measured at two. A higher positive multiplier effect should result with any efficiency.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2018
  12. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    Not at all; simply a different point of view. Capitalism may view more than zero percent, natural for a rate of unemployment for Human Capital. Socialists do not have a capital excuse.

    Solving simple poverty via a market friendly means, is the objective; the federal doctrine has no provision for excuses, Only results.
     
  13. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    Means tested corporate welfare has even paid out, multimillion dollar bonuses to Capitalists of wealth under our form of Capitalism.
     
  14. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Its not. Its about correct use of economics. You've foolishly adopted a right wing concept that attacks your own argument. You've then pretended otherwise.
     
  15. Collateral Damage

    Collateral Damage Well-Known Member

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    Define what you call 'corporate welfare'.
     
  16. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    lol. it has to apply not just be, dogmatic.

    Not at all; simply a different point of view.

    Capitalism may view more than zero percent, natural for a rate of unemployment for Human Capital. Socialists do not have a capital excuse. Capital morals for a market friendly prices versus social morals for free.

    Solving simple poverty via a market friendly means, is the objective; the federal doctrine has no provision for excuses, Only results.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2018
  17. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    lol. Any form of Income Redistribution.
     
  18. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    You can keep playing pretend, but using a right wing concept that actively attacks your supposed solution is just cretinous
     
  19. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    Yes, I can; I am not the one resorting to fallacy. In what way, does the concept and metric of Capitalism's, not socialism's, natural rate of unemployment gainsay my position? I only use it as a metric that supports my position. A natural rate of unemployment for Capitalism, means a positive impact on the bottom line.
     
  20. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    You seem to think you can take a term and reinvent its meaning. No dice.

    Repetition of guff! The NRU is supply side economics. Your argument isn't
     
  21. Collateral Damage

    Collateral Damage Well-Known Member

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  22. Collateral Damage

    Collateral Damage Well-Known Member

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    A company, or individual, retaining what they earned, is not 'welfare'.
     
  23. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    federal "flanking" that is all; the federal doctrine has no provision for excuses, Only results.

    In any Case, it is about solving for simple poverty; a rate of unemployment is merely a metric.

    Simply, Because, Capitalism's natural rate of unemployment is merely, socialism's recognition of Capitalism's, "natural rate of market failure" under capitalism. Socialism's "job", is to solve for capital market failures.
     
  24. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    If, it were Only that; nobody would complain. Income transfers happen, why complain Only when it benefits the poor.
     
  25. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    A random sentence creator would do a better job here!
     

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