It's not that the police hate black people. It's that the police hate the poor.

Discussion in 'Race Relations' started by ryobi, Apr 20, 2022.

  1. ryobi

    ryobi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2013
    Messages:
    3,251
    Likes Received:
    374
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    The poor are over-represented in the criminal justice system compared to the rich.

    It’s my belief that it’s not that the police hate African Americans. It’s that the police hate the poor and many African Americans are poor, therefore; they are over-represented in the criminal justice system because of socioeconomics not because they are black.

    For example, The African American poverty rate is nearly three times that of White Americans: 28% compared to 10%, and the rate of imprisonment of African Americans in the United States is more than six times higher than that of the White American population.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2022
  2. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2015
    Messages:
    13,664
    Likes Received:
    11,965
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The police don’t hate the poor.

    When the police figure out who robbed the store, they don’t care about “income equity”. They just find the guy and arrest him.
     
    Injeun, Autonomous, crank and 3 others like this.
  3. LiveUninhibited

    LiveUninhibited Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2008
    Messages:
    9,681
    Likes Received:
    2,989
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I don't think it's hatred, in the vast majority of cases. Most of the time cops are just acting as humans do. People take shortcuts to be more efficient. Therefore, people who, in their experience, are more likely to be doing something criminal get more scrutiny. The result of this is that people who are outside of those groups get away with more, and those inside get away with less. They also appreciate certain attitudes like being forthright (though it can be used against you in court), and seeming remorseful for a mistake, illegal or not. The groupings that raise cop suspicion are: Male, young, non-white, seems poor, seems uneducated, and probably others like tattoos or attire associated with gangs in some cases. It's been really noticeable in my life. When I was young, basically any cop I came across would check me out and make sure I'm not doing something illegal. Now, they don't even seem to see me. I'm white, but male. Being a young male is like blood in the water for them it seems. Probably even worse if I was black.
     
    ryobi likes this.
  4. ryobi

    ryobi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2013
    Messages:
    3,251
    Likes Received:
    374
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    My hypothesis was: It's not that African Americans are disproportionally represented in the American justice system because the police hate African Americans, it's that the police hate the poor and many African Americans tend to be poor, therefore; they are disproportionally represented within the criminal justice system.

    However, after reading a study, it does suggest that the police hate African Americans because they are black.

    However, I am going to read more studies to see if the overwhelming scientific consensus is that the police hate African Americans.

    However, based on observation and personal experience, I believe the police also hate the poor.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2022
  5. American

    American Newly Registered

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2015
    Messages:
    256
    Likes Received:
    187
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Gender:
    Male
    And you don't think you should produce that damning study?
     
  6. American

    American Newly Registered

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2015
    Messages:
    256
    Likes Received:
    187
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Gender:
    Male
    What values are black children being taught by black adults while they are growing up?

    https://www.nationalcollaborative.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Men-and-Communities.pdf


    https://centerforhealthjournalism.o...ent-fathers-are-hurting-african-american-boys


    Why is it a fact that black commit a disproportionate number of criminal offenses?

    https://www.ojjdp.gov/ojstatbb/crime/ucr.asp?table_in=2
     
    Jarlaxle likes this.
  7. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2020
    Messages:
    8,373
    Likes Received:
    3,909
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It isn't so much that the police hate anybody, it is that society and culture screws people over and people wind up in bad situations more often when they have less support and resources, ie the poor. The police just show up to clean up the resulting messes.
     
  8. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2010
    Messages:
    78,947
    Likes Received:
    19,952
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    IMO, jobs, education, poverty are reasons for why many people commit crimes.

    ...
    Idle hands are the devil’s workshop, idle hands are the devil’s tools, and idle hands are the devil’s playground are variations of a proverb that is quite old.
    https://grammarist.com/proverb/idle-hands-are-the-devils-workshop-tools-or-playground/

    ...
    To much time on their hands. Part of being human is to want to be a part of something larger than oneself. A group.
     
    American likes this.
  9. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2013
    Messages:
    54,812
    Likes Received:
    18,482
    Trophy Points:
    113
    They're committing crimes for the same reason they're poor. Both are a result of the same problem.
     
  10. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2013
    Messages:
    54,812
    Likes Received:
    18,482
    Trophy Points:
    113
    There are lots of other dark skinned people in America who aren't 'targeted' by police. How do you explain that?
     
  11. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2013
    Messages:
    54,812
    Likes Received:
    18,482
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Nope. They commit crimes for the same reasons they drop out of school, or don't pursue gainful employment.

    Crime is NOT caused by poverty.
     
    Injeun likes this.
  12. ryobi

    ryobi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2013
    Messages:
    3,251
    Likes Received:
    374
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    I read another Study titled: "Race and the

    Probability of Arrest". In Social Forces by D'Alessio, S. J.; Stolzenberg, L. (1 June 2003). That found:

    “The probability of arrest given the commission of a crime is higher for whites than it is for blacks. This suggests that blacks are disproportionately arrested for crimes because they commit them at higher rates, not because law enforcement practices result in racially biased arrest decisions."

    In other words,

    when whites commit crimes they’re more likely to be

    arrested for their crimes than they are to get away with them,

    which suggests that law enforcement does not go after black and brown

    criminals with greater veracity,

    accounting for the disparity of incarceration rates between

    Hispanic, Black, and White men, rather it’s that Black and

    Hispanic men commit more crimes.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2022
    Injeun and American like this.
  13. ryobi

    ryobi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2013
    Messages:
    3,251
    Likes Received:
    374
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    Last edited: May 8, 2022
  14. ryobi

    ryobi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2013
    Messages:
    3,251
    Likes Received:
    374
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    There have been numerous studies that demonstrate a direct link between poverty and crime and consequently higher imprisonment rates for the poor.
     
  15. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2013
    Messages:
    54,812
    Likes Received:
    18,482
    Trophy Points:
    113
    There isn't any evidence of that, anywhere on the planet. There are some correlations in some First World nations, but again, the two conditions (poverty and crime) are both symptoms of the same thing in those cultures. In fact the overwhelming global evidence is that poverty has the opposite effect. People are actually LESS likely to engage in crime when very poor.
     
  16. ryobi

    ryobi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2013
    Messages:
    3,251
    Likes Received:
    374
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    Stuart P. Green, Symposium Article, Hard Times, Hard Time: Retributive Justice for Unjustly Disadvantaged Offenders, 2010 U. CHI. LEGAL F. 43, 48 (2010) (arguing that punishment should depend on poverty, subject to IV Reform Proposals
     
  17. ryobi

    ryobi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2013
    Messages:
    3,251
    Likes Received:
    374
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    What are those reasons?
     
  18. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2013
    Messages:
    54,812
    Likes Received:
    18,482
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I have no idea what that means. If this is some First World correlation without causation, it's less useful than the paper it was written on. Once again, the global evidence is that those in deep poverty are less inclined to crime.
     
  19. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2013
    Messages:
    54,812
    Likes Received:
    18,482
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Personal and/or cultural.
     
  20. ryobi

    ryobi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2013
    Messages:
    3,251
    Likes Received:
    374
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    Evidence seems to suggest that the American Justice system hates black people.

    For Example,

    In the United States, it has been noted that racial minorities are stopped more while driving than White drivers. Moreover, there is typically a greater police presence in poorer areas and some evidence of a higher number of arrests of racial minorities, even when the commission of a particular crime (in this case drug offences) is not meaningfully higher within that group. Further, there is also some evidence that police and judges treat African Americans more harshly than other individuals.
     
  21. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2015
    Messages:
    13,664
    Likes Received:
    11,965
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    According to the FBI, in 2020, 67.7% of all arrestees were white. 27.1% were black. Just judging by those statistics alone, it would not appear that the police are persecuting black people and being soft on white people. The percentage of black arrestees for crimes is disproportionate to their percentage of the entire population, but this is not owing to police racial bias. It is owing to a higher crime rate within that segment of the population, and that can be traced to a number of negative socio-economic factors disproportionately effecting that segment.

    I do think that black people were treated unfairly by the criminal justice system in the past. But I also think those days have passed into history. Times have changed. In the killing of Ahmaud Arbery for example, 3 white men were tried for murder. The prosecutor and judge were white. The jury was almost all white. They were tried in Georgia. All three were found guilty of murder. Two received life sentences and one received life with the possibility of parole after 30 years. In the 1950s, they would have gotten away with it, most likely. Times have changed.
     

Share This Page