Just how far in Advancement and Capability is the U.S. Military?

The reason then is that an enemy will be using captured US silencers against US grunts?

 

On a lighter note Iraqi Humvees as captured by ISIS,
http://www.duffelblog.com/2014/06/isis-iraq-humvees-captured/

 

Picture of a Humvee - Ukraine army.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=716_1406459821

 

Come on Mushroom....I usually respect your opinion and posts but I gave you a LINK showing these Gen 6 Robotic Fighter/Attack Aircraft that are part time Autonomous unlike the Gen 7's which are designed to be Full Autonomous......LANDING AND TAKING OFF FROM A NIMITZ CLASS CARRIER!!!

The Gen 6 has even been already used in Battle.

And the CANADIAN AVRO AIRCAR....thus Subsonic Version at least was built and worked even if they screwed up on making the intake fan blades too fragile.

AboveAlpha

 

Silencers reduce the range and accuracy of weapons, and are more prone to failure. Plus they foul up quickly with carbon, requiring cleaning after every 30 rounds or so (a single magazine).

And for anything other then a pistol which fires subsonic rounds, they are worthless. Rifles fire supersonic rounds, so any silencing of the firing is worthless.

Trust me, ask any Marine and they will tell you, the bullet makes a very loud crack as it passes by, like a bullwhip. Silencers do nothing to get rid of that sound.

Oh, and forget the silent "pfht" as a person fires 3-4 rounds into somebody with a silencer, that is Hollywood. The sound of the firing is silent, but it does nothing to silence the sound of the slide going back and forth.

 

Besides.....if a Soldier was firing a Barrett M82 .50 Caliber Sniper Rifle......THEY WOULD BE WELL OUT OF RANGE OF ANY OTHER ENEMY COMBATANT'S CAPABILITY TO SHOOT BACK!! LOL!!!

As well the M82...and I have used it this way.....and it is a B!#@H to carry around....need two guy's....well it can be set up on a Quadropod connected to a number of SENSORS and I will not go too much into what those sensors might be.....but it can be set up completely hidden using a SUPER TELESCOPIC DIGITAL VIDEO ZOOM CAMERA.....and a Screen can be set up with it but when used like this the Screen is usually MANY MILES AWAY!!!!

The sensors take into account the Barometric Pressure, Wind Speed, Day or Night, Humidity, OPTICAL ILLUSIONS as many times if you are in a Desert or in a Jungle or even in the Arctic....when firing this .50 Caliber Weapon.....you can EASILY with Computer Assisted Targeting and Firing.....compensate for Temp. Inversions, Light Bending which I have PERSONALLY once had a problem with and I didn't believe this could happen but I learned that in a super dry Desert even the samllest amount of Water Vapor in the Atmosphere can cause VISUAL LINE OF SIGHT DISTORTION almost to the extent like when a person looks into the water at a FISH SWIMMING and say this person wants to throw a spear or hunt the fish with a Bow and Arrow.....it takes many years for such people who fish this way to understand and recognize THE DEGREE OF LIGHT WARPING THE POSITION OF WHERE THE FISH REALLY IS!!!

Sensors on the Computer Assist Quadropod Mounted M82 allow a Sniper to compensate for such things.

Thing is....the Sniper and his Spotter DOES NOT EVEN HAVE TO BE THERE!!!

These Barretts can be set up and HIDDEN EXTREMELY WELL....and with the Computer Assisted Targeting, Firing, Optical Illusion Compensation...etc...etc....we are able to set them up a day or more in advance in an attempt to get a JUMP on another Group we have been sent to SOLVE A PROBLEM WITH.....and in the past I would send a Sniper Team to two spots I knew that at least ONE OF THEM would be used and selected by the other group as the site we Meet and Greet at is always announced at the latest possible moment to prevent us from getting the JUMP on them but now days we can....WITH SOME HELP FROM NON-TEAM MEMBERS.....quickly get to a few sites that I KNOW at least one of them is going to be where the MEET AND GREET MEETING will be held.....we can a few days ahead of time set these M82's up and they can be controlled and fired from great distances.

Effective range has proven itself to be at least 2 Miles but in order to really get the most out of a weapon such as this which a Sniper Operator who is not on sight even though we bring at least 2 more Teams....One Sniper and One Spotter with us when the site is announced......since the weapon is controlled Robotically the Operator can move the M82 on the Quadropod 360 degrees although at distance the most the weapons rifle length is moved is only a degree or so and a degree or so up or down.......as I like to set them up SO HIDDEN EVEN IF YOU WERE STANDING 10 FEET AWAY YOU WOULD NOT SEE THEM.....I set them up as close as I can say 750 to 100 Meters.

A Magazine......WHICH IS A REAL PAIN IN THE A$$ to haul due to it's size and ammo weight of............... NINETY NINE ......50 Caliber Rounds of which this Magazine can hold AT MINIMUM 3 DIFFERENT TYPES OF .50Caliber CUSTOMIZED AMMO.....as an Operator has the option of activating a MAGAZINE FEED SELECTOR SWITCH....as this very large Magazine which is so heavy when loaded has it's own motorized turning wheel mounted under it and much time and care has to be taken to make certain this turning wheel is stable and set up in a manner that allows it to in a very stable way turn left to right but as well lift or angle up or down.

There has only been ONE TIME I selected two locations to set up that neither of the two were selected.....so having one or two of these M82 Specials already at the location and knowing another 2 Sniper Teams are coming with me on their way to the MEET AND GREET.....allows us to scan everything before we get there.

The M82 set up this way is an AWESOME WEAPON and although I LOATH VIOLENCE and do everything in my Power to make certain that at the end of the meeting our message is not only conveyed but EVERYONE ON ALL SIDES GET'S TO GO HOME VERY MUCH ALIVE!!

That is what I consider a SUCCESSFUL JOB!!!

Sometimes...this is not possible.....and there have been occasions where TRAPS were set up for us and as just myself and my 2nd or 3rd will go down to the MEET AND GREET.....we have a good number of other Team members set up and ready to go.

Once...and this was VERY RECENTLY.....I smelled a RAT.....and I had two of the OPERATOR CONTROLLED Barrett M82's set up and at the last moment I decided to set up 3....and get some help from another Team and bring with us another 3 Sniper Teams one spotter and one sniper.

The GROUP we were to meet had DUG A TUNNEL SYSTEM and we did not detect them and to their credit they were well trained and did not come out or burn wood for cooking...etc.

Turned out they intended to WIPE US OUT and there were 72 of them.....I cannot discuss how many of us but NOWHERE NEAR THAT MANY!!!

As I and my 3rd approached as we walked down to the Meet and Greet I started getting communiques from my 3 M82 Robotic Operators who were many MILES from the Meet and Greet spot telling me they had detected multiple combatants as this M82 System has some serious capabilities I can't talk about....but they were detected.

I told 3rd to keep walking forward and smile until we got to a small channel that ran left to right about another 50 Meters towards the Enemy as it was wide enough and deep enough that I and 3rd could take good cover in it as we were higher in elevation that they were.

I told my Team that the M82 Offsite Operators would open up first and the other two M82 Non-Robotic Teams to open up as soon as the Robotic M82 Operators opened up.

The Offsite M82 Operators have the capability of COMPUTER TARGET TRACKING AND FIRE CONTROL....and this is networked with all 3 Operators Offsite we used that day and this is important so that Multiple Snipers do not target the same target at the same time.

The two Sniper Teams I brought with me were set up and they were ordered by me to concentrate their fire upon any enemy trying to FLANK US as well as Cover our 6.

Now the result is something I had never seen or even heard of happening before as all 72 Enemy Combatants were killed by the 3 M82 Offsite Operators and the two M82 Sniper Teams I brought with us.

I never needed to fire my weapon as both 3rd and I dove for cover and the Robotic Versions with their Telescopic Digital Cameras and Computer Controlled Targeting took out 32 Enemy Combatants in the first 30 seconds.

The last 42 Enemy Combatants.....9 were killed by my two Sniper Teams....the other 33 were killed by the 3 offsite operators over a period of 3 minutes.

The Computer Targeting and Fire Control is supplied DATA AND INTEL. that allows it to make decisions such as firing through the ground to kill an Enemy Combatant I could not see but was hiding behind several feet thick of Hardened Dirt and Stone.

Anyways.....with either version of this weapon...and there have been many varients made over the years.....A SILENCER IS NOT NECESSARY and if you need a Silencer you might as well be firing a 30.06 or .308!!!

Because with an M82.....we were WITH EASE taking out the enemy at a distance of about 950 Meters....relatively close for this weapon considering it has an effective range of a bit over 2 MILES!!!

AboveAlpha

 

Sounds a bit far for paint balls, did you use cameras mounted on the guns to determine who got killed?

 

The Quadropod Mounted M82's that were being controlled remotely offsite use a Digital Video Zoom Camera similar but more powerful than a Digital TV Camera like the one's used to cover Sport Events.

Everything was recorded.

The Computer Controlled Targeting and Firing Systems predesignate targets and do not allow for the other Remote Computer Controlled M82's to shoot at the same targets.

They preselect multiple targets and then the Operators with the press of a Key....cause the Rifles to begin taking ut targets as they see fit.

3 to 5 Targets might be selected and changed as to their order of shots depending upon the movement of the targets.

AboveAlpha

 

Silencers throw off the aim and reduce the bullet velocity.

 

Not really. The Wehrmacht' structure and doctrine were geared more toward offense than defense.
It should be noted as well, that Hitler was big on grabbing other countries. That just can't be done with fortifications. In fact, fortifying one's own position gives one's enemy time to fortify theirs.

You honestly think that we are the first to think up indirect fire? Called fire? Called air strikes? Really? I'd need to see some documentation on that.

Yah. The seige of Leningrad in WW2 was an idiocy of ego. The Russkys should have just left the city to the Germans without a fight.

As far as being super mobile fast attack forces go, if that's the truth, Why did it take Desert Shield almost six months to turn into Desert Storm? I submit the US military is not a super mobile fast attack force.

Also, do you think that our military doesn't dig in around its bases? I beg to differ. Field manual 5-15 is all about fortification. Any military will dig in to defend nonmobile assets it must have (airfields, ports, supply dumps, etc.). The longer they are dug in, the more elaborate those fortifications become.

For these reasons, your assertions regarding the US military's attitude toward fortifications is false. Further, Being a fast mobile attack force is not how an insurgency is won. We lost the insurgency in Iraq: we got kicked out while they got to stay. We'll lose the insurgency in Afghanistan as soon as we leave, because the insurgents won't.

Thus, the US military is nowhere near advanced enough to win the kinds of fights we need it to win. The Russian army, on the other hand, appears to be winning its fight in Ukraine. Perhaps the Russians have a better army than we. At least, it appears capable of performing the tasks it is set.

 

The Barret's rate of fire is about one round every six seconds. Provided the enemy were willing to lose five guys or less to rush your sniper's pos, your sniper would have some difficulty..

Silencers do not work on rifles.

 

They do work if subsonic ammunition is used.

 

With reduced range though.
A flash suppressor is way more useful for a sniper in my opinion.

 

Hitler wasted huge amounts of steel and material constructing the Pill Boxes and Fortifications along the European West Coast.

The British and U.S. were able to bomb many a Nazi bomb proof site by simply bombing the rock around the concrete domes like they did to the V-2 Launch Sites.

Your statements about the U.S. Military not being mobile are laughable as we have the greatest mobility and force projection in History.

AboveAlpha

- - - Updated - - -

What do you think I have been saying?

AboveAlpha

 

Not all that much really. It is not the silencer that "throws off the aim", but the weight of the silencer forward of the typical center of gravity for a hand weapon. The actual silencer itself has little impact.

And they do not reduce bullet velocity, as much as the rounds fired from them are typically much slower then traditional ammunition, specifically loaded sub-sonic rounds, to eliminate the crack I previously mentioned. Typically they are custom made, with just enough powder to allow the blowback or recoil reloading mechanism to operate, and keep the sound subsonic.

Sure they work, but the question is why?

You can put a silencer on any weapon, even a revolver (which is really stupid if you think about it). But with a supersonic round you are eliminating most of the ideal of a silencer in the first place.

 

Best working Silencer....NOT Suppressor......Screw on Silencer for a .22 Magnum Hand Gun.

Can barely hear the damn thing and the round velocity is truly amazing.

AboveAlpha

 

Rate of fire on Robotic Versions is faster and the M82 was redesigned to handle the additional heat generated.

AboveAlpha

 

The problem is the huge wastage and corporate welfarism in the military industrial complex:



Social Safety Net Is Wasteful? How About The $8.5 Trillion ‘Missing’ From Pentagon Budget




While Republicans weep and moan at the “wasteful” dollars our government spends to provide for the social safety net and allow our citizens to retire with dignity, they fiercely defend the incredible amount of money that we pump into the Pentagon and our defense spending, which is the most of any nation in the world- $610 billion dollars a year. However, a new report has come to light indicating that the Pentagon has lost track of $8.5 trillion since 1996– enough to cut our national debt in half.

Since a law ordering audits of all federal agencies came into effect in 1990, the Department of Defense is the only one which hasn’t complied. Since 2005, the Pentagon has accumulated unaudited contracts with outside businesses worth $3 trillion dollars, and the Treasury has no idea how that money was actually spent. The Pentagon regularly cooks its books and outright lies in order to placate Congress, falsely reporting some $9.2 trillion dollars to reconcile budget discrepancies in its 2012 statement.

The misuse of funds and wasteful management of the Pentagon is legendary after the disastrous War in Iraq, where Dick Cheney and the other members of the neo-con coven began privatizing duties that are normally carried out by the US military, allowing arms manufacturers and mercenary contractors to make billions off a horrific, unnecessary war. It is beginning to be very clear that there is a link between Congress, defense spending, and profiteering corporations in America making billions off of taxpayer dollars- the armed forces have too much stuff, and keep buying more anyway. “We have about $14 billion of inventory for lots of reasons, and probably half of that is excess to what we need” Navy Vice Admiral Mark Harnitchek. In 2012, a report found that the military had “$733 million worth of supplies and equipment on order that was already stocked in excess amounts on warehouse shelves. That figure was up 21% from $609 million a year earlier. The Defense Department defines “excess inventory” as anything more than a three-year supply.”

The US military has over 5,000 separate accounting and business systems, all of which are unique and contribute greatly to the difficulty in keeping track of its funds. The Pentagon is a bloated bureaucratic beast with a ravenous hunger for taxpayer dollars, and at this point it’s probably not a coincidence that efforts to modernize and streamline the Pentagon’s accounting systems have cost billions of dollars and still won’t be ready for the planned audit in 2017. There is a huge amount of money at play here, and a deeply entrenched system of corruption that funnels the money we pour into it back to shadowy corporations and contractors, who then funnel it into the campaign coffers of Republican politicians. At the same time, Republican presidential candidates are stumping around the country, talking about how our nation “needs” to increase retirement age and cut funds from Social Security. It’s an absolute travesty that we can’t find the money to pay American workers a fair wage, invest in anything from infrastructure to education to the postal service, but we can still throw billions into the maw of the Pentagon only to find it in the pockets of our politicians and in corporate coffers.




http://www.occupydemocrats.com/soci...he-8-5-trillion-missing-from-pentagon-budget/




None call this wastage TREASON

 

And how is this applicable to the thread at hand? Especially from a source like "Occupydemocrats.com"?

Please come back when you want to discuss the topic at hand, and not throw around political coprolite.

 

Because the Germans were there for half a decade. Places that soldiers defend long term tend to get fortified over time.

[/quote]The British and U.S. were able to bomb many a Nazi bomb proof site by simply bombing the rock around the concrete domes like they did to the V-2 Launch Sites.[/quote]

This was not notably effective against the pillboxes you mention. D-day was pretty bloody foe the Allies, and the Germans were not first line troops in many cases.

Having a mobility advantage is not decisive in an insurgency. We need a force capable of fighting a counterinsurgency. This is not happening. What part of this escapes you?

Your comment was to the effect that it was possible and effective to use a silencer on a rifle. While possible, it is not effective.

 

Depends on the mission. Silent firearms are really popular among special forces of all types, which leads to not just subsonic amunition, but to specially developed pistols, sniper and assault rifles with integrated silencer.
When stealth and infiltration is a priority those would be your choise.

VSSK


AS VAL and Vintorez

In other cases classical systems with a supressor have an obvious range and accuracy advantage over them.

 

Also there is a vast difference in how such fortifications are used.

The Maginot Line was largely ineffective, because of the ability of an enemy to move around the fortifications, or to concentrate on a specific location and force a breech, there after taking the other sites from behind.

When talking about a fixed shore location like the Atlantic Wall, this is much harder to assault. Troops doing the assault have no mobile artillery (tanks), and are helpless until the moment they hit the beach, a couple of hundred yards from the positions. And prior to that they are all bunched up in ways that a single round can take out a platoon to a company, not possible in a ground based assault.

3 ships were lost in the assault, and over 100 landing craft. And that does not even include the horrible losses from those actually assaulting the shore itself.

But even then, the idea of coastal fortifications is not to "throw the enemy back into the sea", but to make the assault as costly for them as possible, and hopefully give time to muster other forces further inland to throw them back. Where the Germans failed here is that they thought Normandy was a feint, and not the actual target. If they have responded faster and more decisively, D-day might not have been the success that it ultimately was.

 

The British and U.S. were able to bomb many a Nazi bomb proof site by simply bombing the rock around the concrete domes like they did to the V-2 Launch Sites.[/quote]
****************************************************************************************************
This was not notably effective against the pillboxes you mention. D-day was pretty bloody foe the Allies, and the Germans were not first line troops in many cases.



Having a mobility advantage is not decisive in an insurgency. We need a force capable of fighting a counterinsurgency. This is not happening. What part of this escapes you?



Your comment was to the effect that it was possible and effective to use a silencer on a rifle. While possible, it is not effective.[/QUOTE]
***************************************************************************************
It's possible but I NEVER posted anything about it being very effective especially at long distances as it deviates the round path.

You must have read someone else.

AboveAlpha...p.s....Oh and U.S. and British Bombers were so worried about bombing their own men they completely missed the Pill Boxes.

Had they hit them many men's lives would have been saved.

 

What happened is U.S. and British Bombers were so worried they might bomb their own forces they completely missed hitting the shoreline PIll Boxes and Fortifications as the Bombs landed in the WRONG PLACE!!

Had they hit those fortifications it would have saved the lives of innumerable men.

AboveAlpha

 

then we give them to other countries to get rid of them and clear out the warehouses