Leftists wake up, lower taxes equal more revenue

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Jackster, Feb 4, 2014.

  1. Jackster

    Jackster New Member

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    Just as any good farmer knows, if you dont allow your cattle to eat enough you end up getting less from them. So any good socialist should surely want to know how do they get the maximum return from their cattle.

    Well it appears new studies from leftist economists Christina and David Roma have found the answer, but it might be difficult for the socialist collectivists to swallow. Seems they have come to the conclusion that the sweet spot to milk the most from your cattle is a 33% tax rate. The problem for leftists is of course, how can you be seen as dishing out social justice when maximizing revenue from your cattle means leaving more of their own property with them? Quite the conundrum indeed!

    Lower Taxes, Higher Revenue
    [video=youtube;FqLjyA0hL1s]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqLjyA0hL1s&list=FL-9ZWa3xwj5awjeFzXnJDSQ&index=1[/video]

    I know im very old fashioned with these sort of things. I tend to view us as people rather than govt cattle or revenue slaves, so i believe the goal should always be less taxes no matter where the sweet spot of exploitation is.
     
  2. geofree

    geofree Active Member

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    This video is not accurate. The land value tax does not burden production or trade, so the land value tax collects more revenue the higher it is levied, all the way up to 100% of the value of land. Even Laffer himself admitted that the curve does not apply to land value taxation.
     
  3. TheBlackPearl

    TheBlackPearl New Member

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    When taxes are high the government can offer tax incentives for the wealthy to act in ways that benefit society. Creating jobs is one example. When taxes fall below a certain point the rich no longer need tax breaks they the don't have any incentive to act in the public's interest. The video above only makes sense to those who think that Obama is a liberal. The goal of conservatism is to support a domineering upper class at the expense of everyone else. They will tell any lie that will further that goal. This video is just one example.
     
  4. smevins

    smevins New Member

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    The study uses 33% marginal rates, not stated rates. Since the ubber wealthy will make most of their money in long-term capital gains which are currently taxed at 20% if one is in the 39.5% tax bracket, it really is an argument for raising capital gains taxes and lowering the top rate to 33% but I assure you, the elite would be more upset with raising LTCG to 33% than raising the top bracket since there are so many ways to deduct oneself out of the top bracket (recall that Obama and Romney are both millionaires and paid an effective rate of 12 & 14% respectively I think--or somewhere thereabouts).

    As for your argument that these people would create jobs to avoid taxes--it is highly doubtful that would be the case because 1) job creation would lead to even more taxable revenue and 2) people in that income bracket are going to be in forced depreciation scenarios where they cannot just deduct the added expenses all at once. It is more likely they would either give some of it away, max out every conceivable deduction (think Bill Clinton donating his underwear to a homeless shelter and claiming some ridiculous $40 a pair charitable deduction or whatever it was), or engage in these totally sleezy by even my standards 1031 like-kind exchanges that should be abolished.
     
  5. Sadanie

    Sadanie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Lower tax for the bottom 80%. . .yes.

    MUCH higher tax for the top 10%. . . NO. . .
     
  6. Armor For Sleep

    Armor For Sleep New Member

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    We have a winner.
     
  7. FAW

    FAW Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This video did not mention land value tax in any manner, shape, or form.
     
  8. TheBlackPearl

    TheBlackPearl New Member

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    It worked just fine for about 50 years after WW II. And the economy did not suffer in the slightest.
     
  9. goober

    goober New Member

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    So you think Mitt Romney's tax rate is about 20 percentage points lower than it should be, I have to say, I think you're right.
     
  10. smevins

    smevins New Member

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    If you like totally ignore the 1970's and double digit inflation in the early 80's and ignore the benefits of added manufacturing capacity by those darn women who decided to join the workforce during that time frame, then sure, our tax rates are the keys to the kingdom.
     
  11. Armor For Sleep

    Armor For Sleep New Member

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    And?

    Referring to the land value tax is enough to refute the notion that lower taxes equals more revenue. In fact, any tax that falls on economic rent refutes that notion.
     
  12. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    Taxes were higher under Clinton but the economy vastly improved as opposed to the dreadful Bush I years. Increase the taxes today, get rid of tax shelters, and the economy would be PERFECT. Like it or not, its the truth.
     
  13. FAW

    FAW Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    and...... the video is discussing federal income taxes , while LVT is NOT a federal income tax.

    so.....when you gleefuly proclaimed that the video isn't accurate, and offered a non federal income tax as your proof, in actuality you proved nothing.
     
  14. Armor For Sleep

    Armor For Sleep New Member

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    I didn't watch the video and I won't. Read the thread title and the OP and you will see that he makes that claim about taxes in general. Even if the video isn't refuted, the OP certainly is.
     
  15. FAW

    FAW Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I would argue that the OP was also talking about federal income taxes, especially since he is referring to a video about federal income taxes. I don't think that anyone was thinking he meant sales tax, ad valorem tax, cigarette tax, gas tax, land value tax, or any other form of potential taxation.

    With that being said, if you wanted to declare the OP wrong, I think it is odd to go about that by calling the video wrong.
     
  16. Armor For Sleep

    Armor For Sleep New Member

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    Take that up with geofree. Like I said, I didn't watch it.
     
  17. Spiritus Libertatis

    Spiritus Libertatis New Member Past Donor

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    So basically, tax discrimination based on class?

    What happened to people being treated as equals? I guess that stops being true once you actually do well in life, then suddenly you're the bad guy. You must have gotten all the money unfairly.

    I'm not a conservative, I don't support a forced hierarchy. But treating every rich person like a fraudster is as offensive as you would no doubt find treating every Muslim as if they were a terrorist.

    Is there a particular reason rich people should be more beholden to society than anyone else? Is their wealth not evidence they have already supported society with whatever it is everyone pays them for?
     
  18. TheBlackPearl

    TheBlackPearl New Member

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    I'm fine with all that Spiritus. With one little qualifier. Instead of taxing people in dollar amounts of income let's tax them by a specific percentage of their assets. But the exact same flat percentage. And no discount for unearned assets or passive income. That's fair isn't it? If not then why not?

     
  19. Armor For Sleep

    Armor For Sleep New Member

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    What if the government issued somebody a title to the sun, and then everybody has to pay the the privileged parasite rent for sunlight. Would the sun owners wealth be evidence that he has supported society with the sunlight everyone pays him for?
     
  20. Subdermal

    Subdermal Banned

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    Derp. This tired leftist BS again. Tell ya what, Pearl. Let's impose a 120% top marginal rate, but only have it affect incomes above 20 million a year, and there will be no AMT, and tax deductions and shelters galore.

    Then - and only then - will you have roughly emulated what you crow "worked fine" for 50 years.
     
  21. Armor For Sleep

    Armor For Sleep New Member

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    Well, IMO, he tried to imply that it applies to all taxation. That's what this thread feels like.
     
  22. Spiritus Libertatis

    Spiritus Libertatis New Member Past Donor

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    Cha-ching. Houston we've got another one!

    Great I've officially convinced...one person that a flat negative income tax is a good idea.......after repeating it like 5 million times....sigh, is there perchance anyone else you know logical enough to listen to me? Everytime I propose a flat tax of any kind I'm accused of hating poor people.
     
  23. Spiritus Libertatis

    Spiritus Libertatis New Member Past Donor

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    The problem with this analogy...is that while it's not unreasonable to charge rent on terrestrial property that you had to pay for to own in the first place, there's a serious problem with society if we're ok with letting the government auction off the Sun.
     
  24. katzgar

    katzgar Banned

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    this thread is udderly ridiculous.
     
  25. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    Dissolve all tax shelters and call back all that capital - this will end the national debt and society will be far better off. It's time to end the corporate welfare state.
     

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