Man killed during FBI raid in Utah posted threats online against Biden, sources say

But he had a firearm on him and actually pointed that firearm towards law enforcement officers. That breaks all bets no matter who the person is or what their physical condition is.

 

One less nut around to do crazy radicalized acts since is he's reported to have pulled a gun on the FBI/SS????!!!! Looks like he was a willing pretty nutty short timer if he did that.

 

Why didn’t they execute this arrest warrant while he was wobbling to his church on Sunday morning as he was observed doing ?

I’m a retired sheriffs deputy. I have some experience in this field. If this guy was suspected of being heavily armed inside his home, why wouldn’t you try to separate him from those weapons before you arrested him?

this guy was obese and could barely walk with a cane. It’s not like he would’ve been able to pull a concealed weapon on these highly trained FBI agents had they attempted to arrest him outside of his home on one of his journeys to church or the store.

 

There’s really no justification for how the FBI handled the situation. They had other options at their disposal which would’ve resulted in no shots fired.

 

All the more reason to arrest him while he was outside of his home while he was going to church or grocery shopping as he was known to do.

 

How? So far, all I see are righties clogging up the wheels of government to satiate their fantasy dreams of vengeance, but not a damn thing to address responsible governance.

 

A public arrest would cause embarrassment and bring him public shame.

 

It would have resulted in no shots fired and no needless killing. So what if it embarrassed him.

 

How are “the righties” clogging up the wheels of government?

In your mind, what is responsible government?

For one thing, the federal government does too much.

 

We don't know that. Typically, you don't want civilians in the area because of what can happen.

 

Really? You actually felt you had to ask that question?

Responsible governance has to do with real issues, like protecting the country's credit rating, writing legislation that actually benefits their constituencies' lives, fortifying the trust in our government institutions, and NOT seeking vengeance for political score counting and made-up culture war bullshit.

 

Nothing but clichés. Your inability to form a rational response has been noted.

 

So then you decide to go conduct a military style raid in a civilian neighborhood.

One method results in no shots fired, but you prefer the option which causes a loss of life and neighbors being put in potential danger.

 

Your inability to understand basic civics is duly noted.

 

Please explain that troll post.

 

This is so dumb. A public arrest would have put the public at danger. This guy was willing to shoot at cops. Who knows who else he’d be willing to shoot. You’re really reaching here. I can’t help but wonder if you would be as outraged if this man were an African-American or someone who had threaten the president while Trump was in office.

 

The public would not have been placed in danger by arresting him when he was outside his home.

The guy was almost an invalid. There’s no way he could have engaged the FBI and Secret Service out on the street. He didn’t have the physical ability to engage in an armed confrontation outside his home. The guy could barely walk for crying out loud. He wasn’t going to pull an AR15 out from under his rolls of fat.

Your Trump diversion was idiotic. That said, what would you think if this happened during the Trump administration?

 

NOT defending what this guy said because he’s crazy. But your consistent framing like this guy was actually dangerous to THE PRESIDENT, when he’s elderly and immobile is laughable. A couple days surveillance and a 110lb female agent could have taken him down solo while he slowly limped to his car on an errand. You don’t find it HILARIOUS the army they sent to take down this 1 old fat guy And they’re still withholding any real details of the arrest? Not strange at all? It’s almost as if they wanted a big shoot out to use as a political stunt and when they didn’t get it, whoopsie, shoot the witness. For 4 years I saw tons of violent threats to kill or maim Trump and his family on social media and I can’t recall a single individual the FBI confronted in this manner. Madonna said in front of 1000s that she wanted to blow up the White House. No arrest. A comedian held a severed head of the president. No arrest. And those were “famous” people. The number of nobodies making similar threats were endless.

Just curious but did you have this same attitude when a drug dealer shot through walls during a raid and the police blindly RETURN fire? The MSM were outraged and called it a racial incident. I assume you know the case to which I’m referring? Did you take the side of the police on THAT one? A case with a far more dangerous individual or multiple individuals in that apartment?

 

How would arresting him outside of home put the public in danger?

You’re introduction of race and Trump was dumb.

 

You don't try to involve any innocent by standards at all especially at a church or any other place in the public. That is putting the public at risk unnecessarily, especially if someone you know is armed, politically agitated, and so forth. It is best at his home, or in an isolated location, but in all cases several, if not more than a dozen officers will be involved in that arrest. This is not like the TV shows or the movies where the lone detective or sheriff does it all alone. That is not real at all. That is simply entertainment.

As a retired sheriff deputy, there is a huge difference if you know someone is armed and you are stopping someone for a minor violation. But you follow your protocols for that encounter. Your senses are extremely heightened if you are going on a domestic abuse call where there may be firearms present and both people are hot in the head but you follow your protocols in that instance. But if you were ever a detective in that Sheriff's Department, if it is large enough, and you have an arrest warrant, you will call the Fugitive Task Force to apprehend the suspect. Some sheriff deputies may be part of that group. And they usually go to homes or friends of homes of where that suspect may be hiding. Only in extremely small rural counties where the total population is less than 2000 where you may have the Sheriff personally arrest someone for a major crime. But that sheriff will probably know more about the suspect than his own parents or relatives and knows how to talk with him and have a rapport with him. But that is generally not the case and was not the case here.

 

Gee. How would arresting a guy in public put the public in danger? I wonder. Are you even listening to yourself?

Even assuming it wouldn't put the public in danger, why should the FBI expend the resources to camp out waiting for this man to leave his home? I guarantee you, 100%, that you wouldn't expect the FBI to do the same for someone who had threatened Trump. No doubt in my mind.

Here's the truth. You have sympathy for this man because you agree with his politics. But you can't openly say that you have sympathy for a man who wanted to assassinate the president. So instead you looked for a reason to be outraged. And you found that reason in your half-baked Monday morning quarterbacking of the FBI. They are the experts. I defer to them to determine the safest way to arrest a man who has threated to kill the president and any FBI agent who dares to attempt to arrest him.

 

I am seriously starting to question whether you are a former sheriff deputy or not. Let's take this in reverse, shall we? A gang member drives by and wants to eliminate a rival gang member, spraying bullets into the crowd where the rival gang member is. But in all reality, that rival gang member is not hurt or even killed, but many innocent bystanders are. Then in LA, you had two yahoos with AK 47s with 100 round drums spray bullets towards the police. Several police officers were hurt and I think one or two were killed. There were also several innocent bystanders hurt and killed in that situation. In both instances, it shows that spraying bullets in a crowded area will cause more harm to innocent bystanders than the intended target.

Now, you are a police officer or sheriff's deputy, you want to confront the armed suspect who is politically agitated, who is more than willing to kill, to arrest him in a public area. You don't know if he will put his hands up immediately, point a firearm, or even start shooting. And you are adding innocent bystanders who will **** in their pants because of the confrontation? That is not something the police are willing to take a risk at. And if I knew what sheriff's office you worked for, and if it is a large enough sheriff's office, I can find the protocols in which it tells you not to do this. Even small sheriff's offices will have this under the state programs.

 

Now you’re comparing this half crippled old obese man to a young gang member? Lol.

 

i was not comparing anything. The point is if you have a gun and if you are in a crowded area, and if you start firing, innocent people will get hurt even when police are there to apprehend that person who is carrying a firearm. By god, you are fogetting half of your training and the protocols in your department. Some may even die. And that was my point and I made that perfectly clear in my post. You just ignored it.

Look you are mixing your personal feelings with your professional protocols and training and it is getting you deeper and deeper into debate trouble here where you will bury your own position and really have no way out. 3Link is correct., You sympathize with this guy, but it is influencing your judgement here. If you were on the job, you would have been given other duties, that's for damn sure. Even if your father is the Sheriff, he would have done this in a heartbeat. Otherwise, that governor would intervene, even if that governor is from a different party than Biden. No one wants an attempted assassination on any political figure. No one in reality.

Even as a retired sheriff deputy, you have shown your lack of professionalism for the job. this has been done in all of your previous posts. And in that case, you are too close to this situation for your own damn good.

 

actually, they could be caught in the crossfire