Marines short 6 Infantry Battalions and the Navy short 100 ships.

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by 61falcon, Nov 25, 2020.

  1. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    Diplomacy is the art of saying "nice doggie, until you can find a rock". In other words it is utterly meaningless without the credible threat of military force.
     
  2. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    When budget planning takes place at the end of the fiscal year military units always ask for more in the hope they get what they really need. By the end of the fiscal year units will spend all the money they received so they can receive the same amount or more. That means buying stuff they don't really need like stereos for shops, fancy barbecue grills, new tools, etc... So let's place the blame on military fiscal budgeting.
     
  3. LogNDog

    LogNDog Well-Known Member

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    Obama didn't lead ****. He faked it.



    The secret backstory of how Obama let Hezbollah off the hook
    An ambitious U.S. task force targeting Hezbollah's billion-dollar criminal enterprise ran headlong into the White House's desire for a nuclear deal with Iran.
    In its determination to secure a nuclear deal with Iran, the Obama administration derailed an ambitious law enforcement campaign targeting drug trafficking by the Iranian-backed terrorist group Hezbollah, even as it was funneling cocaine into the United States, according to a POLITICO investigation.

    The campaign, dubbed Project Cassandra, was launched in 2008 after the Drug Enforcement Administration amassed evidence that Hezbollah had transformed itself from a Middle East-focused military and political organization into an international crime syndicate that some investigators believed was collecting $1 billion a year from drug and weapons trafficking, money laundering and other criminal activities.

    Over the next eight years, agents working out of a top-secret DEA facility in Chantilly, Virginia, used wiretaps, undercover operations and informants to map Hezbollah’s illicit networks, with the help of 30 U.S. and foreign security agencies.

    They followed cocaine shipments, some from Latin America to West Africa and on to Europe and the Middle East, and others through Venezuela and Mexico to the United States. They tracked the river of dirty cash as it was laundered by, among other tactics, buying American used cars and shipping them to Africa. And with the help of some key cooperating witnesses, the agents traced the conspiracy, they believed, to the innermost circle of Hezbollah and its state sponsors in Iran.

    https://www.politico.com/interactives/2017/obama-hezbollah-drug-trafficking-investigation/


    Please quit trying to pipe smoke up my ass.
     
  4. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    https://www.csis.org/analysis/us-military-forces-fy-2021-navy
    https://www.csis.org/analysis/us-military-forces-fy-2021-marine-corps
    https://www.csis.org/analysis/us-military-forces-fy-2021-army

    Trump puts the money where his mouth is.

    The Trump Administration’s Budget: Putting Its Money Where Its Mouth Is

    As budgeteers like to say, “Plans without funding are hallucinations.” To its credit, the Trump administration put resources against its strategy. Chart 1 shows DOD’s budget history and the projection for FY 2021. Resources are substantially higher than the BCA cap and what the Obama administration had planned. These budget increases have allowed the services to rebuild readiness, institute a robust modernization program, and grow force structure a little.

    https://www.csis.org/analysis/milit...rategy-overview-four-challenges-and-wild-card
     
  5. (original)late

    (original)late Banned

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    Diplomacy is the art of avoiding war. We have a credible military, we have diplomats to try and avoid using it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2020
  6. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes. It's more important to pay Iran to get nuclear weapons (which they are pursuing regardless) and to add more troops to wars that have long since been over. AND to INTERVENE in the Russian/Syrian conflict that they are handling.

    So what you're saying is, you prefer the Bush policies. Noted for future discussions
     
  7. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What smoke are you referring to ? and how does the above post relate to this smoke ?
     
  8. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So what are you suggesting .. That Biden should not get involved in diplomacy because our military threat is not credible ?

    What is it you are trying to get at ?
     
  9. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Who paid Iran to get nuclear weapons ? . - Don't get that one.

    The rest I agree with.
     
  10. gamewell45

    gamewell45 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Spoken like a true republican; just throw away taxpayers dollars without accountability. Let those officers in the military resign their commissions after their 8. There will be plenty of people ready to step in and take their places. If anything Biden will be a much better commander in chief then Trump ever could be.
     
  11. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The problem with that argument is that you get a very drastic drop in quality and experience. Experience because it takes five or more years to really make a good officer and quality because when people start leaving and you have to replace them, there is a smaller sample to select from. And just the fact that people are leaving is going to make potential recruits realize that this might not be the most desirable career.
     
  12. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    A typo surely. Too much even so but a billion cannot be not even for the military

    My question is what are we "policing" these nations from? China and Russia are building harbors and loaning these nations money, then building military bases to protect their interests and the nations. Aren't we doing exactly that in response?

    And what we're all trying to do is make money. Last I checked we weren't at war with China and Russia, even a Cold one. Why don't we talk to Russia and China and see if we can't all make money together?
     
  13. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Then you're more informed than Trump
     
  14. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Really??? You believe they are going to listen. Additionally, Trump was criticized by the left for trying to be friendly with the Russians and Chinese.
     
  15. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Anyone who wants to make money will listen to anyone who offers them some way to do so.
     
  16. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Do you think money is the primary motive of the Chinese and Russians?
     
  17. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    of course they are going to listen. Why would they not ? Makes more sense than name calling does it not ?

    US interests are upset of late because other nations started to engage in the same tactics we have been engaging in for decades. Difference is now they can get away with it - and there is little we can do but whine.

    "you people" - and this applies to both sides - don't seem to understand what is going on geopolitically. We are no longer the only king on top of the big hill. Others have grown up .. Our military might means little in this game - no longer the strongest piece on the board - and in fact a small bit player - good for negotiations with smaller nations but means little with the China, Russia, India, Europe, and so on.

    This game is economic - fighting for scarce resources and a piece of the global economic pie. We are fighting to keep our portion of the pie .. the rest of the world wants their share too.

    We used to be the only economic game in town - and so all we needed do was whisper desires into the ear of some nation and they would come running on bended knee... This is no longer the case ... so stop living in that world - as it is a false perspective.

    Russia/China are economic competitors - just like India - the EU - Brazil - Korea - Japan... and so on. In the past we had a strangle hold on the Russia/China as all of the others always sided with us .. and China was not even a player .. nor was Russia.

    Now everyone is fighting for themselves.. We lost the ME - China/Russia will be rebuilding Syria/Iran/Iraq - but also Europe .. and others.
    The one locked out of the game - on the outside looking in - is the US. In the rest of the ME things don't look much better. Oman and Qatar have good relations with Iran - playing both sides. Turkey is a gong show .. on the side of Russia as much as the US these days .. S-400 missile system and all. Saudi Arabia is still firmly entrenched but - China is now their biggest customer.

    Venezuela will be rebuilt by China/Russa - and many other South American Nations are looking fondly towards the belt and road initiative.
    Africa is up for grabs - many looking towards the belt and road initiative.

    India - Largest Population on the Planet - again plays both sides - they work with Russia Militarily - S-400 system - and joint missile programs - brahmos.

    Trump made big blunder - made big bluff - and got called - and our position on the board has suffered.
     
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  18. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    What else would it be?
     
  19. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In spite of all that, Trump was trying to get along with the Chinese and Russians and the democrats did not like it.

    The basic problem with your theory is that the Russians and Chinese will play along with us and then do whatever they they wanted to do anyway.
    Power. Power and money are not the same thing. With sufficient power, you don't need money.
     
  20. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    That's what Trump wanted to do but you all hated it. You aren't understanding China. China's foreign policy is based on the memory of the Boxer Rebellion.
     
  21. gamewell45

    gamewell45 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    West Point and the other service academy's turn out plenty of good officers every year; additionally if you increase their salaries to be competitive with the private sector, they'll be tempted to stay on and you'll retain the good quality officers.
     
  22. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I saw the same thing happen before right after Vietnam. The service academies don't come close to turning out enough graduates. Money alone won't do it.
     
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  23. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No one paid them to intentionally build them. The money they got from Obama's deal is what I'm talking about. Iran, with the deal or not, will still pursue nuclear weapons. They will no matter what. I'm saying it's safer to NOT be in that deal because it's happening either way.
     
  24. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    No they don't not even close. Every service has to have and does have its own version of OCS to keep up with officer demand. And don't even get me started on senior NCOs.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2020
  25. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    This is way larger than simply a money problem, money can purchase equipment but it can't necessary purchase people. Military recruitment and retention are still problems that the DoD is trying to tackle and COVID was actually a blessing in disguise in that regard (sort of). You can dump all the money in the world into the military if you want but without enough bodies then it's almost meaningless, we can't just buy 6 Marine Infantry Battalions...it doesn't work that way.

    But having served under both of these Presidents I can tell you with 100% certainty that the military is in a much better place now than it was under Obama. What Obama and Congress did with sequestration was devastating to the military and it's going to take A LOT of time to undue that if it's even possible to completely fix it. In fact I challenge you to find one single servicemember who served under both Obama and Trump to say that the military was in better shape under Obama, I genuinely don't think you'll be able to find one.

    The mentality of young folks of recruitment age has changed drastically over the years and the pool from which to draw potential recruits has shrunk. Last year I remember reading that like 70% of military aged recruits are unfit for service or something from a physical standpoint. So now your pool is smaller and you are trying to convince kids that the benefits of military service outweigh the negatives such as the fact that we've been at war for 20 years. That's a tough sell with this new modern demographic of young folks. Couple that with a competitive job market and you're going to have a hard time getting people to sign up. And if you are able to get them to sign up then you have to fight the battle of convincing them to stay in after their contract is up once they experience military life for themselves which is something especially difficult to do with servicemembers with specialized jobs like computer tech or aircraft mechanics or something. The military can simply never compete with the civilian job market in fields like that because they can't pay enough.

    Long story short this basically boils down to trying to convince a group of Gen Y kids that they should join the military. If you've ever interacted with these kids then you'd quickly realize how hard of a sell that is for recruiters...These aren't the same types of kids that we were...
     

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