Minimum requirements for heaven.....

During my search through near death experience accounts and similar spiritual experiences I have ran into a number of cases that can give us an idea of how we might be able to make it into heaven by the skin of our teeth..............

...... I am not recommending this approach....... but it has serious advantages over becoming extremely angry and critical of everybody who disagrees with us over certain points of doctrine that we feel strongly about.

One of best examples that I have ever ran into is a guy who made it into what he termed the "outer darkness"...... but technically it was a part of heaven.

This account is a little over half way down the page under the heading:

http://www.heavennet.net/visions/the-hordes-of-hell-are-marching.htm

The part that I bolded and enlarged reminds me so much of The Life Review part of the typical near death experience that I personally am convinced that the visionary dream of heaven given to Pastor Rick Joyner back in 1995 is a lot like an out of the body experience or near death experience...... .although techincally it would be termed a visionary dream..... I think.

 

Here is an article on the Life Review as reported by a significant percentage of near death experiencers.

https://www.near-death.com/science/research/life-review.html

 

I could be wrong.... I often am but I am convinced that the being of light who reviews our lives with us during a near death experience........ or in the case of the death experience of the former acquaintance of Pastor Rick Joyner (opening post), who reports what it was like to go over the events of his life with Messiah Yeshua - Jesus after he passed on.

http://www.drbo.org/chapter/30006.htm

[6] "For my angel is with you: And I myself will demand an account of your souls." (Baruch 6:6)

John 5:22 - "For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:"

John 5:27 - "And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man."

 

I'm going to say what if your wrong what if Baal is the true deity or Lucifer is and then what? I'm an Apatheist and prefer that these beings prove themselves before worshipping them while you might side with an enemy deity, and man I wouldn't want to be you. So if Jesus and such are real why don't they become public with modern media it wouldn't be hard?

 

I've had a NDE and it was nothing like that. It was, however, complete peace and completely comfortable. I wanted to stay but a voice behind me said "You have to go back".

IMHO, "Hell" is a choice, not a condemnation. People who want to live in the darkness will live in the darkness until they want to walk into the light.

 

That is actually a very good group of questions!

I have gotten the impression that Messiah Yeshua - Jesus - Issa is the ultimate Cyrus the Great type.........
more so than President Trump or anybody else....... (as I am sure you know Cyrus the Great decreed the rebuilding of the Jerusalem Third Temple for the Jews but he also gave freedom of religion to all 127 provinces of the Medo -Persian Empire).

Messiah Yeshua - Jesus judges us partly based on what we know and believe......
along with what we do.

For example in the following near death experience that a Christian had he reports being shown a Muslim,
who had been taught since his childhood that the Prophet Muhammad ( peace be upon him).... had clearly stated that Rabbi Issa - Jesus - Yeshua was the Jewish Messiah........ and that he himself was merely a Prophet.

This Christian is shown a Muslim...... crying out to Messiah Issa - Jesus - Yeshua for help at death.... and this Muslim goes to heaven..... whereas a Christian woman who refused to forgive the people who did not visit her and assist her when she was sick...... goes to hell.

Because Messiah Yeshua - Jesus - Issa is the ultimate Cyrus type....... I have concluded that
he is a better spiritual guide / Messiah / author of some variation of salvation than anybody else that
I have read about so far.

http://www.near-death.com/religion/christianity/emanuel-tuwagirairmana.html

 

Wow!

I am seriously impressed!

Yes...... hell is a series of choices! We humans are choosing to turn the earth and the modern economy into more and more of a hell.... somewhat like was reported in the NDE that I quoted in post #6:


"Emanuel was then shown hell which he said was very filthy. Those in hell are made to work like slaves all the time." (Emanuel Tuwagiralrmana)

I have actually attempted to go into how we do not have to define our selves as bankrupt as many supposed experts with a piece of paper proving that they are economists have been telling people that we must do for various reasons. We can make better..... less hellish....... more heavenly choices even in how we set up our economy.

www.BankingSystemFlaws.blogspot.ca/

 

Even if we nuked ourselves into oblivion it doesn't matter in the long run. Life is short, life is mortal. It isn't even a flyspeck in comparison to eternity. This truism is expressed in Matthew 16:26 -- And what do you benefit if you gain the whole world but lose your own soul?

A soul is eternal, but life on Earth? It's even less than Kindergarten in comparison to a person's full life. What we learn here, like Kindergarten, can be important, but it's just a step. Ever talk to HS students who think HS life is "everything"? That who's popular and who's not, what clubs one belongs to or not is the most important thing in the world? Obviously they are wrong. Life on Earth is analogous to High School. It's important, but means little in the larger scheme of things.

 

True........ but I am hopeful and confident that the earth in the year 2185 will be much more
utopian than we can imagine at this time.


http://www.near-death.com/experiences/notable/howard-storm.html#a04

I am of the belief that especially powerful prayers played a significant role in Hurricane Irma being downgraded
considerably before she hit Florida.

 

While our God-given brains help us to better understand the Universe and develop tech to give comfort to more human beings, we're all still mortal and nothing inside the Universe is permanent, not even the Universe itself.

My wife is a big believer in the power of prayer, but I question why God would create a Universe with rules then "cheat" on those rules. Puerto Ricans are a lot more religious, on average, than mainland USA, yet they got whacked hard twice. The suffering there is phenomenal yet I have no doubt they were praying hard to both be spared and for help.

Again, as my previous post mentioned, what happens here is more about learning, not getting presents from Santa Claus. Prayer can give one strength when suffering, but in the end, all that matters is God's grace and the peace of eternity.

 

To at least some degree... I suspect that the residents of Puerto Rico volunteered
before they were even born to demonstrate how serious that hurricane really was........
so that Americans could view the devastation there and have an increase level of
gratitude for our being spared.

Americans do tend to be astonishingly generous anyway but I do believe that these hurricanes are
going to inspire America's churches to rise up to a whole new level of generosity combined with
creativity and rather high level wisdom in terms of economics and business.

http://www.politicalforum.com/index...ons-should-print-their-own-currencies.381946/

 

How about the quarter of a million lives lost in the 2004 Tsunami? The 80 million lives lost in WWII? The 6 million Jews murdered in the camps along with the other 5 million that were executed?

Again, I fail to see God granting wishes like Santa Claus. God's promise is eternal life. Mortal life is known to be finite. The best we can hope for is a painless end to mortality.

 

Good questions!

What former Atheist Howard Storm was shown about behind the scenes events during the holocaust on the Jewish people during the Nazi era will somewhat help to make sense out of all this.


Howard Storm:

 

Near death experiences are exactly what one should expect from a brain undergoing a death process.

Expecting clarity from that is like expecting a wounded video player to give an accurate rendition of a corrupted video feed.

 

Perhaps but one would not expect to be able to induce dozens of different near death experiences through hypnosis in ninety percent of volunteers.

This is merely one example of how hypnosis can give us access to NDE type memories:

https://www.near-death.com/experiences/triggers/hypnosis.html
The Trigger of Hypnosis:
Palden Jenkins' Near-Death Experience


The more amazing way in which hypnosis can get us into meeting a being of light and reviewing our lives was studied extensively by Helen Wambach Ph. D. in her two books.


http://www.carolmoore.net/articles/helenwambach.html

 

Dr. Eben Alexander a neuro surgeon and prof would strongly disagree. I think I would give him more creds than some pessimistic forum member. A genuine NDE has the ability of changing perspective. Perhaps you will suffer a heart attack one day and have your own. And experience a revolution in perspective. People who have these things say they seem more real than daily existence. Not like a dream state at all. But you think the brain creates consciousness, when it is more likely it receives it.

 

I don't agree. Hypnosis isn't near death - it is hypnosis. You can get people to pretend to be a chicken, or whatever.

And, even just the denial of oxygen doesn't need to be death defying to cause our incredibly complex brains to start shutting down in new and exciting ways.

I don't know why anyone would be surprised about weird results obtained from combining the two.

Deciding one is likely to get eternal life based on that kind of stuff is just plain crazy - a sign the denial of oxygen went WAY too far.

 

People often change perspective when they think they've come near to death. There is nothing new about that.

And, people who experience straight up hallucinations claim they seem very real, too.

NO. The brain creates consciousness. There is no doubt about that. There is no magical being living inside or outside, animating our lives. That is the "god did it" answer that comes from not actually figuring out how something happened.

 

Exactly!

The implications of the Helen Wambach Ph. D. research is that the human soul or over - soul is astonishingly old.

Dr. Wambach wisely limited her research to four thousand years in the past but if most of Dr. Wambach's volunteers had been taken back further and further...... they could have done an amazing job of explaining something along the line of the Cyclic Model of the Universe that Dr. Hawking goes into in one version of in chapter 13 of his book "Stephen Hawking's Universe.

https://www.near-death.com/reincarnation/experiences/mellen-thomas-benedict.html#a05

 

A nice logical argument from someone who has never experienced it. I was an atheist. The experience shocked me because of its reality. Like you, I tried to fit it into "logical" terms and took several steps (and risks) to replicate it. I've been knocked out, passed, drugged out and many other forms of "altered states of consciousness". I even majored in behavioral psychology to better understand what happened. Nothing duplicated the experience. Nothing. Zero. Zip. Nada.

Say what you will, but I firmly believe that existence is more than what we are seeing in front of our faces. No, I didn't see "God" nor "Jesus", but there is more going on than meets the eye. Believe as you wish but the experience put me on a spiritual quest far more than just repeating quotes out of ancient texts.

 

True, but getting the **** scared out of oneself is not the same as a NDE. I've done the former several times myself.

 

I'm not opposed to spirituality. So, maybe something good came out of that.

I just hope it isn't leaving you opposed to science. It doesn't have to.

 

Why would I be opposed to science? I used the scientific method in my research.

One part of science is to admit the difference between the testable and the non-testable. We can study the Universe and the Big Bang, but not what happened immediately "before" time and space began nor the causal factors of the Big Bang, if there are any.

 

True - those cases are outside of what science can verify.

There are lots of people who can find science and religion/spirituality to not be in conflict. I'm one, though my own view on the supernatural is such that it makes it easy for me, but I hope reasonably understanding of others.

 

Agreed some people believe spirituality and science are in conflict. I'm not one of them. In fact, I think studying the Universe is to study the "divine".