Mistakes we have made in the struggle against islamic jihad

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by ElDiablo, Nov 25, 2015.

  1. ElDiablo

    ElDiablo Banned

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    Any way you look at or want to interpet the Pew Survey of the Muslim World....it paints a distressing picture.

    The Pew Research Center just issued a report on Islamic beliefs: “The World’s Muslims: Religion, Politics and Society” (a one page summary here). The researchers surveyed over 38,000 people in one-on-one interviews in 39 countries—all countries having more than 10 million Muslims. Unfortunately, they left out Saudi Arabia and Iran, where, they note, “political sensitivities or security concerns prevented opinion research among Muslims.” This alone suggests that including those countries would have given the data an even more extremist slant than they had. Here’s where Pew surveyed:


    >>>>>>>>>>>>>https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpres...on-muslim-world-paints-a-distressing-picture/

    PEW POLL: 63 MILLION MUSLIMS SUPPORT ISIS IN ELEVEN COUNTRIES
    A new Pew Poll released this week found that 63 million Muslims support the Islamic State in the eleven Muslim countries polled
    http://www.infowars.com/pew-poll-63-million-muslims-support-isis-in-eleven-countries/
     
  2. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  3. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    Which supports my claim that the many (terrorists and their supporters) do not represent the many more (Islam as a whole). I have the ability to separate the many from the many more. I think the terrorists need to be eliminated with extreme prejudice, but I have seen no evidence that all Islam are terrorists or terrorist supporters.
     
  4. ElDiablo

    ElDiablo Banned

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    That is what needs to be understood and amplified.............the liberals consistently put up the supposed defense..."but not all muslims support violence or jihad" but that really is no defense...and I have never seen anyone claim that all muslims practice or even support Jihad.

    The reality is simply this and all the polls...including the pew poll which seems to rejoice that the majority of muslims do not support jihad...that there is a huge, huge number of muslims who support jihad. The importance of that is the central message here and what needs to be understood by all those interested or tasked with the defense of America.

    Also...another thing needs to be understood....even though today any particular muslim may not be a radical...tommorrow he may be...the process of radicalization sometimes comes quickly and sometimes it is a slow process. The truth of the matter is any muslim is subject to becoming radicalized.

    There simply is no way to predict with any accuracy who or which of them will become radicalized....one big clue though is that those who are the most devout are the greatest candidates for radicalization.

    Hence it can be deduced that any nation with a significant number of muslims within it's borders is inherently at risk of the sorts of attack we have seen in NYC, London, Paris etc.

    As we speak we are under credible threats of attack by ISIS...it is known that elite FBI units are closely monitoring 48 isil supporters in the USA who are considered the most dangerous...yet there are many more of them...whose propensity for violence aka jihad is unknown.
     
  5. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    Indeed which shows the inherent subjectivity of polls as in the same poll most people see suicide as immoral. What piques my interest is that the numbers of those who say suicide is immoral do not coincide with those who say suicide bombers are never OK. I would like to see a poll that reconciled those variables.
     
  6. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    Nor have I seen you separate the terrorists from the rest of Islam. If you do separate the terrorists from the rest of Islam then why do you argue semantics over the use of limiting words rather than agreeing with me that the terrorists do not represent all Islam?

    If "There simply is no way to predict with any accuracy who or which of them will become radicalized" then upon what do you base the claim of the "one big clue"? Do you have anything other than anecdotal evidence to support the above quoted claim? My anecdote is that being devout leads some to terror while it leads others to tollorance.
     
  7. ElDiablo

    ElDiablo Banned

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    The islamic Jihadis swim in the ocean of islam like fish swim in the sea....no way to seperate them.

    Their most Holy Book demands Jihad...thus the more devout a muslim is...the more likely he is to submit to the demands of their Holy Book.

    Bottom Line: Impossible to tell the difference between a good muslim from a bad muslim.....If anyone could do that it would be the Israeli's but even they with all their experience with muslims cannot do it.....time and again you hear of a muslim walking up to some Israeli and stabbing them--they can be very deceptive....they can make their approach to the victim in a completely normal looking and innocent mode.

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/03/n...er-educated-muslims-more-likely-to-wage-jihad


    http://www.answering-islam.org/NonMuslims/die_kill.htm
     
  8. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's because Islam does not have the same paradigm of suicide as the western world. They actually have two different words for suicide.

    The first is the suicide you and I are familiar with, where you jump off a bridge, drive over a cliff, or put a 12 gauge to your head. That is pretty much universally condemned in Islam.

    The second kind of suicide is to make a martyr of themselves FOR Islam. That form of suicide is encouraged, applauded, and taught even to kids. This form of suicide is much like that used by the Japanese kamikaze's.

    The two are viewed in a completely different way to those who practice Islam.
     
  9. Sunspear

    Sunspear New Member

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    Don't know what you're talking about: most Muslims view suicide as unfavorable even in the second circumstance you mentioned. Here is a source that supports this.
     
  10. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    Source citation needed, or was that yet again based upon anecdotal evidence?
     
  11. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Another anecdote? Where was the first one?

    Istishhad. This is martyrdom, and is not considered suicide the way we conceptualize suicide.

    Intihar. This is suicide as the western world knows it.

    https://caugustelliott.wordpress.co...s-in-contemporary-conflict-sacred-or-profane/

    Here's a good read on how the Madrassas are recruiting kids:

    http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/publication/faultlines/volume16/Article3.htm
     
  12. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    Moot point as it does nothing to refute my claim that not all Islam supports suicide bombings. The issue I have with your posts is that instead of using limiting language you speak in general terms. Do you understand that not all Muslims support suicide no matter the form? If so then why not use limiting terms like some, few, many, a number of, etc?

    When I see Islam painted with a broad brush I see bias, when is see limiting terms I see objectivity.
     
  13. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Look at the numbers again. Only two countries polled said it should never be done by majority. Also look at the "I don't know" section where you have as much as 10-15% who just aren't being honest. How could you be "unsure" that suicide bombings are ok or not?

    The fact is there are probably close to a billion Muslims out there that either already support, openly or secretly, such tactics to at least some degree.

    A BILLION PEOPLE.

    That deserves very, very broad strokes in dealing with the problem. If 1 out of 5 police (based on a conservative estimate of those that support suicide bombings) just executed everyone they pulled over, would you say "well, not all police are doing it".

    Why does it matter if "All" Islam supports suicide bombings when the most conservative number is greater than the entire population of the United States.

    They hate our very existence and are doing their best to destroy it. They are not going to integrate into Western culture, their entire being is opposed to it.
     
  14. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    Moot point that does not refute my claim that not all Muslims support suicide bombings.

    Applying your own understanding is not the same as actually understanding. Why assume to the positive or the negitive when faced with incomplete evidence? To know the minds of the undecided one would have to talk to the undecided to get the reasons behind their indecision. To make an assumption and speak as if it is fact is illogical by my measure of logic.

    The fact that you use the word "probably" shows that your "fact" is based upon an assumption. If the above quote was actually a fact there would be no need to use the word "probably" and the stated fact would be supported by a cited source.

    The claim of a billion is not supported by your previous cited source thus making the rest of the above moot as it is based upon a unsupported claim.

    It matters for two reasons. 1) The claim is not backed by previously cited sources, 2) It is biased to not separate those who support terror from those who do not support terror. I see no data that proves that most Muslims support terror, and even if evidence does come to light that empirically supports that claim, I can still separate those who support terror from those who do not.

    Again you choose to paint all Islam with a broad brush rather than use limiting words. No doubt the above represents some Muslims, but not all.
     
  15. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Ok. So we just wait until 100% of all Muslims provide affidavits of support for suicide bombings, then we do something about it.

    Good plan.

    I say "probably" because it's the best information we have, and we're assuming that 1.7 Billion is the actual number of Muslims, and we assume the polls are 100% correct, which is of course impossible.

    You claim "anecdotes", I provide proof and facts, you claim moot because it's not 100% support. I bet France disagrees with that assertion.
     
  16. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    How is the above relevant to anything I have argued? Did you miss the part where I said we should eliminate the terrorists with extreme prejudice? My point continues to be that the terrorists and their supporters do not represent all Islam, to think otherwise is illogical by my measure of logic as the data does not support the claim.

    What is your plan? Do you see Islam as the enemy?

    Incorrect as your assessment includes the "undecided" which you claim "aren't being honest", yet your claim lacks the backing of evidence. The objective follow the evidence, the biased use the evidence to support their assumptions... such as the undecided "aren't being honest".

    My claims are based upon the evidence and the evidence shows that most Muslims are against terrorism.

    You indeed have provided facts that either do not refute my claim, or you read into the fact by adding your own bias such as claiming that the undecided "aren't being honest".

    Please clarify.

    And this has what to do with the price of tea in China?
     
  17. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A large portion of Islam is certainly the enemy.

    I propose anyone who is asked "should suicide bombing ever be used", and they say "I don't know", pretty much speaks for itself. If you were to ask "is raping women ever justified" and someone told you "I'm not sure/Maybe", how would you view that?

    I brought up France because many of those that perpetrated that act were born and raised in France, and yet that wasn't enough to integrate them into western society. They're not going to integrate, they're going to take advantage of what the west has to offer, then they're going so slit our collective throats in the name of their god.

    We are at war with an ideology, and anyone who practices that ideology is suspect. That is a biased opinion I agree, but its the only way to make sure "allah akbar" isn't the last thing we ever hear.
     
  18. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    Indeed, nor have I argued otherwise.

    And what it says is relative to the interpretation of each individual thus subjective. Reading into it is to apply ones own predetermined conclusion that lacks the backing of the evidence... aka bias.


    What does it matter how I would view it? Is how I view an others indecision an accurate reflection of their true intent? I argue no. I would keep an open mind and not jump to a conclusion to the positive or the negitive based upon incomplete evidence. I would be baffled by the indecision but I would not see it as enough empirical evidence to make an objective claim that they do or do not support rape.

    OK, and your point is? Are you saying that the above typifies all Islam or just the terrorists?
     
  19. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    Does all Islam practice the ideology thus all Islam is our enemy? Why make 1.7 billion people our enemy when not all 1.7 billion support terrorism? We need to separate the terrorists from Islam as a whole, something that you thus far seem incapable of doing as you have yet to agree with me that the terrorists do not represent all Islam.
     
  20. ElDiablo

    ElDiablo Banned

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    You are very coinfused....we did not make them our enemy.....they made us their enemy.....they declared war on us...not vice versa.

    Irregardless of the fact that you seem overly impressed with 1.7 billion people....the great majority of them are hapless, poverty striken and slaves of allah...they pose no threat....the overwhelming majority of them....so do not worry about that. The only gang of islamic jihadists that have a significant military force at this time are the ISIS group...the taliban has a military force but smaller and less effective than ISIS....but even the military force of ISIS is insignificant to any Western Miitary Force. The only reason they manage to hang on is that Obama refuses to send in any ground forces since to do that would be to admit he made a mistake by pulling our combat forces out of Iraq....as of yet he is not prepared to do that.

    However.....the different Terrorist groups ISIS, Al-quada etc. do pose a grave threat to America because of their assymetrical warfare capabilities...now I am sure you are not familiar with that term but you can research it. Also the terrorist organizations covet nuclear and or chemical weapons....that is the greatest danger they pose...if they acquire such weapons i.e. suitcase nukes. Obama has said that his biggest nightmare is nuclear attack by terrorists on NYC.

    Lastly...if you know how to seperate or distginguish muslim jihadists from the general population....you should immedialy confer with homeland security, the joint chiefs of staff, the CIA etc. because none of them have that capability...at least at any meaningful level.

    Once they put forces in the field as ISIS and the Taliban have done then those forces can be identified to a reasonable degree...but not to a complete degree...but enough so...that if we had the political will we could destroy these forces....yet we have not. The next thing we need to consider why haven't we destroyed the Taliban's forces or those of ISIS .....well already talked about ISIS....the primary reason we have not been able to completely knock out the Taliban is that we have allowed them sanctuary in the tribal lands of Pakistan...which of course being across the border from Afghaniland...negates our ability to completely destroy them.
     
  21. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    A faux fact based upon what something "seems" to be = assumption and not fact. My use of the 1.7 billion is to contrast the 350 million terrorists and supporters that you previously claimed as cited by a biased blog that made false claims of a Pew poll.

    OK, but this has what to do with anything I said?
     
  22. Daggdag

    Daggdag Well-Known Member

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    Since when is protesting considered sedition.
     
  23. DarkDaimon

    DarkDaimon Well-Known Member

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    You mean I can't have a "war against air power"? :frown:
     

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