>>Mod Warning<< Thoughts on the War in Iraq

Once again, the problem was that Obama wasn't interested in slaughtering civilians - or Sunni fighters who opposed the militaries of Syria and Iraq.

And, there simply wasn't the time necessary for any Trump changes to have affected the outcome that was headed in this direction before Trump was inaugurated.

 

Actually, it was George W Bush who did that.

His favorite Iraqi exile, Ahmed Chalabi,the guy who conned Cheney, Dumsfeld, Pearle,and Wolfowitz into taking over the country for him was handing our intelligence reports to Tehran even before the invasion.

The Malaki government had a very warm relationship with Tehran,and the US looked the other way.

 

Free Beacon? Wing Nut Daily? seriously????????

 

Facts not in dispute. The issue is why they were blocked and what the overall strategy was.

 

Hi Tom,

Thanks for showing up and sharing your input!

I can't give an alternate view without repeating myself for the third or fourth time.

During Bush>post war Iraq=up. During Obama>Iraq=down. During Trump>Iraq=up.

Results are what matter.

 

Oh, please...

Besides, if the Project for a New American Century had been successful, it would surely qualify as an empire.

The whole idea was to establish the US as the single superpower with unassailable military force over the globe for the next century. What more could some general pray for in forming an empire?

 

Bush got us out because he made a pledge that if Iraq asked us to leave we would. They wanted to be able to try American soldiers for deaths to Iraqi civilians if we left a fighting force there, which Bush would not agree to so they made a withdraw daate. But even then, I have no doubt in my mind if Bush was still President after the withdraw, he would have never allowed ISIS to take over half of Iraq like Obama did. He would have given Iraq the air power they asked for and which Obama denied.

 

We are the world's lone superpower. If we weren't in Iraq, we would be even stronger.

The idea of an American Empire is propaganda.

 

Nothing then.

 

Says who? You?

 

Then look upthread. Pointing to books written by the CIA director and the DOD Secretary under Obama who strongly advised against pulling out of Iraq as well as an advisor to CentCom is not a dodge.

The colossal blunder made by Obama was pulling everyone out. This is the lesson of history learned by all Obama's advisors and unexplainably ignored by Obama. This is the mistake which hopefully will never be repeated (as Obama did) again.

Libya ?? Are you kidding me ?? That's now a territory without a government and a haven for terrorists. But that's another Obama blunder and subject of another thread.

 

Panetta and Gates along with every other Obama military and state advisor. That's who.

 

What does support mean ?? Are you seriously arguing that ISIS would have been as "successful" as it was if Obama had not pulled all our troops, intelligence, and governance personnel out of Iraq and conceded Iraqi air space to Iran ??

 

Obama did not act in the interest of the Iraqi people, the ME in general, and the US. One word - ISIS. America stands for defending the defenseless which includes our own citizens.

 

Sounds like you wanted to declare war on the new Iraqi gov't the US basically put in place. How many times do you want to be the war aggressor nation in the same country. ONE mistake is more than enough.
And the US should never be overtly the aggressor nation.
They should not be covertly either, but we are.

 

You have to be more specific than that. You point at a book and ignore time frames and exaggerate what the principles actually said. For example, Obama did NOT pull everyone out.

Exactly!

That's why I pointed it out as an example of how military action is grossly insufficient.

 

We were not at war with Iraq.

Yet, your actions suggest we were.

Our troops came out of Iraq as per the Bush SOFA.

 

We were effective against AQI/ISIS when we had combat troops working with Sunnis during the awakening - after we had gotten over our "deBaathification" blunder.

Then, we made the second major blunder. We enthroned Maliki and made his nation sovereign. He was our point man in attacking Sunnis - so we were back to the "deBaathification" days of failure.

Once that was done, we couldn't both work with the Iraqi government AND with Sunnis as Maliki was at war with them.

Then, Bush signed us out with his December SOFA.

And, now YOU claim Obama was the problem??? Sorry. By the time Obama was in power we were highly constrained in what we could do.

 

The Iraqis wanted the US to stay. All Obama’s advisors strongly recommended that we stay. Obama committed the worst foreign policy decision since Neville Chamberlain. That’s reality.

 

That’s silly. The documentation is there to those who are interested in the truth.

Libya and pulling out of Iraq are both examples of colossal Obama failures.

 

No. Maliki wanted us gone.

Shiite leaders -- including many from Maliki's own Dawaa Party -- were even more strongly opposed, with followers of radical Shia cleric Moqtada al-Sadr threatening renewed violence if any American troops stayed past the end of the year. The Sadr threat was deeply alarming to Iraqis just beginning to rebuild their lives and their country after the bloody sectarian strife which ravaged Iraq for the past eight and a half years.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...g-because-iraq-doesnt-want-them-there/247174/

 

My actions suggest what ?? Obama spectacularly blew it.

 

Maliki and his government wanted us to stay only in a training and support capacity.

You keep pointing at Obama, but it was Bush who tied our hands.

Bush chose Maliki, quite possibly the worst choice and only 3rd or 4th place in the election.

Bush made Iraq sovereign before the job was done, praising himself for a job completed.

Bush negotiated and signed the SOFA that removed our right to independent operations in Iraq and scheduled in detail our removal of forces to be accomplished within the first few months of Obama's first term.

Blaming Obama is just plain STUPID.

 

Maliki wanted us to stay. That link does not contradict Maliki’s position.

 

Not admitting the obvious Obama failure is delusional.