Mohamed Noor, Officer who fatally shot Justine Damond charged with murder

Why is that exactly? You aren't painting a mosaic, you're enforcing the law. This is a criteria that has no business being there, and dilutes the attention to the critical qualities.
This is just feel good nonsense, like "Diversity is our strength"...

Some evidence here has already been presented. He was fast tracked, and he was in a totally unrelated field in college. Another bit that hasn't been as widely presented is that in his short 2 year career, he already had 3 complaints against him. 1 was dismissed, but 2 were still on going at the time of the shooting.

This just isn't a good Officer...but he was the First black Somali!!! Yay?

Like fast tracking the training because he had a college slip in a totally unrelated field? I agree...but the city was in a bind for more diversity...so this is what they did.

I think he did as well. Perhaps that training being fast tracked again is the answer here.

 

I told you why I thought having a police force that represented the community was a good thing and you ignored that and brought some non sequitur of mosaic painting. And again who have a claim without evidence and so I will now ignore your posts until you present some.

 

So you couldn't quantify the question with an actual answer. "Feeling" that the Law is better served by even sprinkling of skin colors is nonsense, and shows exactly the problem here that you have been asking me to prove.

This is a criteria that is being enforced that has 0 business being considered at all. We both know by this that there will be times when a similarly, or even slightly better qualified candidate will be passed over to paint this diverse picture.

It could have been this guy.

 

I admitted that my views are my personal opinion just like your view that diversity means unqualified. Do you have any evidence to prove this? Anything that states flatly this man was unqualified when he was hired? Or any evidence to suggest minority officers aren't as qualified as their white counterparts?

 

I'm not suggesting all minority officers are less qualified. Some I'm sure are perfectly qualified. I don't believe THIS one was, and I think that is backed up by his totally unrelated experience, his short time on the job with 3 complaints already, and killing someone.

I also do not think that things like diversity should have any bearing on the hiring process. Skin color is not a skill or expertise, and that's all a job should be looking for.

When you put another qualifier in there, as this city appears to have ben doing in their need to address a diversity shortfall, they allowed this under qualified guy to not only join the force but to be fast tracked.

If you hire base don excellence...and you get a diverse outcome? Fantastic. But you don't chase the diversity, and hope to get excellence...especially in jobs where lives are on the line.

 

None of this assumes he's unqualified. You can look at his record and think he was poorly trained or just a bad aggressive cop. Why have you zeroed in on him being unqualified as the only explanation considering there's no evidence of it. I will admit him being unqualified as a possibility but your certainty despite evidence is informative.

I fail to see how being familiar with the community, having ties to the community or even being from the community is a detriment. I'm not saying it should bethe deciding factor but it helps. Also it's useful to note that in the article you posted the police officers were disappointed by the lack of diverse candidates.

When you put another qualifier in there, as this city appears to have ben doing in their need to address a diversity shortfall, they allowed this under qualified guy to not only join the force but to be fast tracked. They want to hire people from the community, so much so that some officers are quoted as saying instead of waiting for candidates to come to them they went out and recruited some themselves. If the police officers themselves want more diverse co-workers why are you so dead set against it?

 

The entire concept of affirmative action is to pick candidates based on their arbitrary characteristics (skin colour, gender) over picking candidates purely on who's most qualified. It's hard to say if this particular case was just a fluke or a direct result of AA. But it's fair to say that there are little Noors all around the country, adding dead-weight to their respective companies.

 

It's evidence, not proof of his being unqualified, but still...that's pretty telling evidence of it.

None of that mandates a skin color, which is what we are discussing. if you can't keep to that point, then why bother? Being familiar with the community, and or having ties is a sidestep away form what we were discussing.

A White Man could have those very same ties, and yet..they weren't looking to address a shortfall of White men, they wanted more color. Ties to the community or being familiar is just trying to make it sound less offensive than it really is.

Here in 2018 we are hiring people based on skin colors. Back in the day, that was racism.

Because lives are on the line, and skin color shouldn't be a concern. The jobs too important for feelings based criteria.

 

Its equally telling evidence of poor training.

No it's not. A white man could of grown up in black and Hispanic communities and feel like he's a part of those communities sure but a black or Hispanic person is still going to be more intimately familiar and accepted by those communities and I think you're downplaying the importance of a sense of unity and community with the police force. Remember in theory these people are more guardians keeping us safe than wardens keeping us in line. And again, minority and diversity does not mean unqualified. You say you don't think all minority officers are bad yet you keep presenting being a minority as being the same as unqualified. Otherwise why do you seem to think skin color is a detriment? If the majority of the people in your district are black and you have two equally qualified candidates one white and one black wouldn't being black give you a little bit of an edge all things being equal?

Only to a racist snowflake is having a police force be representative of the community offensive.

No racism is why we have A.A.. Learn history.

Show me one place were skin color is said to be the only criteria.

 

I think you have that backwards. The people who give preference to, and hire based on Race are the racists.

I don't need to learn anything here, I am on solid ground with my side of this discussion. it is you who needs to learn a bit. AA for example isn't a solution to racism, it's a continuation of it with the past roles reversed.

It is racism.

I know it's got a cutesy name so people don't see it for what it is...kinda like calling a group of fascists "antifascists"...but the actions always betray the politicaly massaged titles.

And another attempt at reframing things to your liking..lol...you Libs. I see right through this crap everytime. When you have to do this, it also tells me that you know your argument is failing.

Skin color shouldn't be ANY part of the criteria. You know what that is right?

 

If you work in a community dominated by people who speak Spanish it would be wise of you to give preference to applicants who can speak Spanish. Likewise if you're working in a diverse community it would it make sense to hire a diverse workforce. Your problem is you don't know what racism it. Just because race is considered or is a factor in a certain situation doesn't make that situation racist. No one is claiming white people shouldn't be hired, or that they're unqualified or that the number of white officers shouldn't be reflected in the percentage of the white population. Nor is anyone saying that they should be equal. That if the community is 50% black the police force should 50% black. No. We're just saying it's common sense and a good idea to have some black officers. That isnt racist, it's just obvious.

Reversed? Really that's a bold claim. You mean to tell me there's a workforce in a America not dominated by white people? That qualified white people are having trouble getting hired in certain workforce? I'm intrigued. I'd love to see your evidence of this.

Skin color shouldn't be a barrier to employment it could be an assest. The FBI and CIA use Spanish and Muslim agents to infiltrate cartels and terrorists cells. I guess this is racist.

 

The police receive a call close to midnight that a woman is being raped. They respond and drive down a pitch black back alley and wait in the car to listen. A dark shadow of a person approaches from behind the car, accidentally taps the back of the car making the police aware of the presence and suddenly the dark shadow is seen when a few inches from the drivers window. One of the officers shoots the unexpected shadow. A black man is shot and killed by the officer.

No doubt, you will say that the actions of the black male victim was the cause of his death. Police have been murdered by hoax calls.

 

Full stop on another dishonest leftwing presentation. linguistic skills are a skill. A quantifiable skill that could be in demand.

Skin color is not. Seriously, like I said prior, if you have to keep wrapping your arguments in comparisons like this one...it should tell you that you're on the wrong side.

I know exactly what racism is, and using it as any measure of employment is indeed racism.

Obvious to the race pimps only. IMO, the only things that should be considered are the qualifications. You may even end up with 100% Black at the end of the day and that is fine if they were the best candidates.

White people outnumber Black people...it's always going to reflect that in hiring.

There you go again making another false argument. No one said Race should be a barrier to employment, we are discussing the fact that race shouldn't be treated as a Qualification or give someone a leg up on another person.
That's racism. Perhaps you need to learn a bit more.


LOL....undercover agents now? Well...ummm of COURSE you want them to blend in...they're undercover agents and HAVE to blend in!!!!
Undercover agents? helloooooo?

This has NOTHING to do with what we are talking about here.

Look this is like the 4th-5th??? Time now you've done this, and it should tell you that you really don't have a valid argument with what we are discussing when you have to keep pivoting elsewhere.

 

Lol. Those quotes in sequence make you look like a crazy person. At the top you say race should never be considered in hiring and doing so is racism! but by the time we get to the end we can clearly see that you admit that race might be a qualification in some instances, which was my point. Unless you'd like to clarify that hiring Hispanic or middle easterners to the FBI and CIA for undercover work is also racist.

 

Undercover agents need to look like everyone in the area they are serving in, or they're going to stand out and be discovered pretty quickly. This is NOT anywhere near the same thing as race based hiring practices here at home where people aren't involved in an undercover sting......

Anything else I need to debunk? Or have you run out? I've still got a couple hours to go.

Heres a question for you, can't wait to see how you answer this one.

Is there ever a time, (here in America and not in an undercover sting capacity), where AA could force the hiring of a less qualified Minority over a more qualified White person?

If you have the courage to answer honestly, maybe you will finally see the problem.

 

The only thing that justified speeding this guy the process and skipping critical thinking is the color of his skin.

 

But you guys think the cops are supposed to automatically know the age, race, and sex of a person with first glance. i.e., the kid in Ohio with the BB gun. Oh yeah, this cop was black so you don't expect that much out of him. Forget I said anything.

 

But I thought hiring based on race was racism!

Sure, if you feel like debunking more of your own arguments have at it Hoss. Lol.

That's easy, the answer is no. Why should I be afraid to answer you're transparently biased question? Where did I say less qualified anyone should be hired? You have still yet to prove less qualified minorities are being hired over more qualified whites.

 

HAHAHA!!!!!!

How in the world was that defensive???

 

It is when there is no distinct need. Obviously youc annot conduct an undercover sting if you stick out like a sore thumb.

Do you really not see the glaring difference?

You didn't say that, I'm just curious how important this racial percentage game is to you, so I asked. You already went on record saying that if two are equal, that you'd go with the Minority....just seeing how far you'd go to make sure the demographic percentages are met.

So if the best candidates all happened to be White, you'd be perfectly fine if that didn't match the demographics of the area? Seems that was real important to you before.

 

I see the differences and similarities I don't know why you don't. Both seek to ingratiate themselves into the community and gain the trust of those communities. Looking and speaking like people from that community helps.

That's a lie. I said all things being equal if being black helps to better police a black neighborhood then they should go with the black guy. Key phrase there all things being equal. I also said preferably, police force demographics should reflect the demographics of the community. Not precisely but closely.

The way you look at best is ridiculous and childishly simple. Some candidates might be better or worse of in other areas and other situations. And certainly there are qualified candidates in all demographics. The article you mentioned didn't say anything about them getting to many unqualified minority applicants but that they got to few minority candidates in general. Why do you keep proposing this straw man where all the best candidates are white? In that fantasy where all the minorities are horribly unqualified sure, hire the white guys but that's all it is, a fantasy, unless you think there's some reason why white people just make better cops?

 

No, that's not the same at all. A CIA or FBI operation doesn't try to blend in to give a feel good representation of the area...it's because they're supposed to blend in as to not be discovered.

Except that "being black helps to better Police a Black Neighborhood" is a made up excuse. That cannot be quantified, so it cannot really be considered for hiring purposes.

I'm asking you a question, not making a statement that the best are White. Don't try that dishonesty please.

If you cannot answer questions which will contradict your prior positions, then just say so. How about an answer to that question instead of an easily seen through attempt to avoid answering?

If hypothetically all the best Candidates were White, that would be ok with you? Or would you have to hold some back to better reflect the makeup of the area?

Just an answer please.

 

I answered your your ridiculous question already.

The fact is you are railing against something you have yet to prove. The link you posted says the opposite of what you say it does. It says the police want more minority officers and are going out themselves to recruit them.

 

You do realize there are statistics on educational achievement and career achievement divided by ethnic groups? Asians are the most successful, followed by whites, Hispanics and blacks.

It's like you guys are schizophrenic. One moment you're vying for special privileges for certain races, who are perpetual victims in your eyes, and the other moment you're clutching your pearls and gasping in outrage that someone is pointing out that they're less successful. Which is it, buddy? If members of X race are less interested or because of Y circumstances e.g. poverty, less likely to be educated and less likely to be qualified for job Z, well buddy we can't invent them. The only way you can create equality of outcome at that point is to fill the ranks with less qualified, less educated people.

 

No, you roll the ****ing window down(or better yet, get out of the car knowing you have a partner to back you up. That's why they go into team's of 2) and discuss with the person knocking on your car door. You don't pull out your gun, and in no shape way or form is the woman's actions the cause of her death.

The cause of her death is that the officer didn't have sufficient training and perhaps not even the qualifications(how can a businessman be mentally prepared for the streets of crime?) to be an officer.

The City/State is responsible for her death, and this dude is rightly charged with murder.