My gun control compromise

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by Maccabee, Jan 4, 2020.

  1. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2018
    Messages:
    9,050
    Likes Received:
    4,354
    Trophy Points:
    113
    And again there are no such laws, maybe try doing a little research before making yourself appear more uninformed, than what you already have.
     
  2. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2015
    Messages:
    47,848
    Likes Received:
    19,640
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Normal people understand that the law abiding have a right to own and use firearms that shall not be infringed and, constitutionally, must be as easy to exercise as the right to free religion, religion, abortion, etc, as well as the fact there's no sound argument for the necessity or efficacy of making it harder for the law-abiding to exercise their rights.
     
    Levant likes this.
  3. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    23,895
    Likes Received:
    7,537
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Except for the fact that such is not the case. Absolutely nothing resembling information has been presented to demonstrate just how firearms could be removed from the equation as a variable. The senseless statement of "make them illegal" does not explain how such a declaration would go about actually removing them from those who are in possession of them.

    Is such a threat?

    Law is useless without the ability of enforcement.

    Speed limits are easily and visibly enforced. Firearm-related restrictions are not.
     
    Levant likes this.
  4. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    23,895
    Likes Received:
    7,537
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It is the basis of due process. Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. The very foundation of the justice system in the united states. If such is not acceptable, move to another country where due process of law simply does not exist.
     
    Levant likes this.
  5. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Messages:
    41,184
    Likes Received:
    16,184
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    We are discussing a law, not a crime. Does due process mean everyone is entitled to be armed?
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2020
  6. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2015
    Messages:
    47,848
    Likes Received:
    19,640
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Everyone who has not lost their right to keep and bear arms and chose to do so - yes.

    Why do you refuse to understand that the law abiding have a right to own and use firearms that shall not be infringed and, constitutionally, must be as easy to exercise as the right to free religion, religion, abortion, etc, as well as the fact there's no sound argument for the necessity or efficacy of making it harder for the law-abiding to exercise their rights.
     
  7. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Messages:
    41,184
    Likes Received:
    16,184
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Not what was being discussed, He said there was no easy availability to firearms.
     
  8. rahl

    rahl Banned

    Joined:
    May 31, 2010
    Messages:
    62,508
    Likes Received:
    7,651
    Trophy Points:
    113
    If you do not understand that you can not get 37 states to pass your amendment, I can not be responsible for your education. It's 6th grade civics.
     
    Well Bonded likes this.
  9. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    23,895
    Likes Received:
    7,537
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Unless an individual has been subjected to due process in a court of law, and their constitutional rights severed in a court of law, such is indeed the case. The second amendment, the right to be armed for all legal purposes, applies to absolutely every adult unless the above standard has been met. Simply because some states refuse to abide by such and place numerous additional restrictions in the way does not change that basic fact.
     
  10. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Messages:
    41,184
    Likes Received:
    16,184
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I find several thousand deaths annually to be a sound argument for anything. Laws can and should be changed when they no longer make us safe.
     
  11. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    23,895
    Likes Received:
    7,537
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Explain precisely how the legal use and ownership of firearms serves to make any private citizen unsafe.
     
  12. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2017
    Messages:
    14,267
    Likes Received:
    4,465
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    And in what grade is it that you learn about the Constitution? There are two things you need to learn before you can understand the situation and I do not think you have enough knowledge on the subject:

    1. The Constitution can be amended.
    2. An Amendment can be repealed.


    Look it up if you don't believe me.
     
  13. rahl

    rahl Banned

    Joined:
    May 31, 2010
    Messages:
    62,508
    Likes Received:
    7,651
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Where are you getting lost? You can not get 38 states to agree to amend the constitution and remove the right to bear arms. You do not have the political support to do so. You are advocating for a total impossibility today.
     
  14. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Messages:
    41,184
    Likes Received:
    16,184
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The legal use doesn't, but its' the illegal use we are discussing

    Guns can fall into the wrong hands and most people do not try hard enough to prevent that.
     
  15. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2015
    Messages:
    47,848
    Likes Received:
    19,640
    Trophy Points:
    113
    YOU do - but you cannot supply a sound argument to this effect that will sway the opinion of a rational, reasoned person.
    Thus, your opinion is meaningless.
     
  16. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    23,895
    Likes Received:
    7,537
    Trophy Points:
    113
    And each of those two things can only be done if thirty eight states agree to do such. Thirty eight is the absolutely bare minimum number of states necessary to amendment the constitution. Such is codified into the united states constitution itself, and that threshold is absolutely impossible to change.
     
  17. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2015
    Messages:
    47,848
    Likes Received:
    19,640
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Unsupportable nonsense.
     
  18. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Messages:
    41,184
    Likes Received:
    16,184
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    That doesn't mean you can't try. Ending slavery was seen as impossible and women would never have the vote.
     
  19. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    23,895
    Likes Received:
    7,537
    Trophy Points:
    113
    And such falls outside of the scope of the law, and is already criminalized in all circumstances. Therefore nothing more needs to be done, nor even can be done.

    Such is not the fault of legal firearm owners. Take it up with the ATF and the DOJ, as they are the ones that refuse to prosecute known firearm traffickers and straw purchasers to the full extent of the law.

    It is not the legal responsibility of the victims of criminal activity, to try harder to not be victimized by known criminals. Those who lose their legal firearms are ultimately just that, victims of criminal activity.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2020
  20. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Messages:
    41,184
    Likes Received:
    16,184
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Irrefutable fact, Many millions of guns are in the hands of felons. Somebody, somewhere let this happen somehow.
     
  21. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    23,895
    Likes Received:
    7,537
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ending slavery and the right to vote are not comparable to firearm-related restrictions. Ending slavery and the right to vote pertained to ensuring targeted minorities held the same right as the majority. Firearm-related restrictions are about abridging and infringing upon constitutional rights.
     
  22. rahl

    rahl Banned

    Joined:
    May 31, 2010
    Messages:
    62,508
    Likes Received:
    7,651
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Because amending the constitution to REMOVE the rights of the citizenry is as un-American as you can possibly get.
     
  23. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Messages:
    41,184
    Likes Received:
    16,184
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I didn't say it was the legal fault of firearm owners, perhaps it should be but it's not. It is still a fact that one or the other legal person has not exercised proper care of a dangerous instrument if it falls into criminal hands. They may be victims but they are also negligent to a greater or lesser extent.
     
  24. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2017
    Messages:
    14,267
    Likes Received:
    4,465
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I am very sorry but you contradict yourself so often that I don't know where I should jump in and point it out to you. Just when I think it's the right time .... you contradict yourself again. You need to consolidate your thoughts.
     
  25. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Messages:
    41,184
    Likes Received:
    16,184
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    You can take away rights when they no longer make us safe. The Constitution is not a suicide pact.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2020

Share This Page