NATO attacks Sirte ( to protect civilians )

I'm not debating the development nor the diversification. Like I said, very islamic (one of the five pillars) and with that much cash ya just gotta buy stuff.

In your 20 years there, did you live amongst the saudis or did you live in one of those gated enclaves for foreigners?

Where exactly was your church located?

Did you wander around shopping without a hajib?

Did you drive your own car around?


So they do cut off the hands for theft and cut off heads for adultery.

http://www.politicalforum.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=4383704

The death penalty can be imposed for a wide range of offences[2] including murder, rape, armed robbery, repeated drug use, apostasy,[3] adultery,[4] witchcraft and sorcery[5] and can be carried out by beheading with a sword,[3] stoning or firing squad,[4] followed by crucifixion.[5]

 

We held church in the local theater.. and sunday school at the school.

I was off compound nearly every day.

Never wore an abaya.

There is NO death sentence for adultery.

They put their kids in drug rehab.

Apostasy is a concept that few westerners comprehend and has do do with the language of sentencing.

So when did you live in Arabia?

 

Nope, but that's besides the point. I'm willing to accept most media coverage has it's own hidden agenda and sometimes certain corporations emphasise distinct aspects of a conflict while completely ignoring the other side of the conflict, like the BBC for instance.

Just because I don't live there, doesn't mean I don't know anything, I mean Gaddafi let the world press into Tripoli during the whole conflict, and yes there were not just corporate media there but independent journalists too, and since they've got no big corporate overpaid boss to tell them what to report on, the truth leaks through the cracks of the farcical one sided portrayal mainstream corporate media push on to national television.

The internet is a great source of knowledge, in most cases you don't actually need to be in a location to learn about it.

Also please remember the majority of Libyans had healthcare, water and food before this conflict broke out, please remember what war torn Afghanistan and Iraq look like today, and then please try and justify your position, because your position is that extreme Islamist elements are somehow better for the people of Libya than a radical, albeit tyrannical dictatator, but one who allows his people more freedom than most nations in the region.

 

During some of the war 37 foreign journalists were held in the Rixos hotel by Khadafi loyalists with guns.

 

So your church and sunday school were in the same compound were you lived. An enclave of western values suitably seperated from Saudi's so they won/t have their neighbourhoods tainted by non-islamic lifestyles.

I'm sure you didn't wear an abaya but I bet you wore a hajib?

the laws are on the books and beheading is the maximum sentence for those outlined.

I'm sorry, I am aware of the concept of apostasy, but I'm not sure I understand your sentence.

 

Oh and they were all held hostage and then negotiated with, and then killed one by one...

No.

They all were able to leave, allowed to do so by Gaddafis guards.

If the guards had let the journalists out in the middle of fighting, and say the journalists get killed by the rebels, we'll soon have headlines and breaking news all over the corporate media world, "GADDAFIS GUARDS KILL JOURNALISTS"....

Then people similar to yourself would be lapping it up, like a cat does milk.

 

No none of the American women wore Abaya or Hijab on or off compound.

The Saudis were very helpful in managing the livestock for our outdoor Christmas pageant.

Adultry is not a death penalty offense.. and apostasy means treason.. If you have committed rape, murder, pedophilia you are sentenced to the crime AND apostasy because you have betrayed the community and the faith.

 

Funnily enough, I've watched BBC documentaries taken place in Saudi Arabia. In some villages all the women had to wear full black hijabs, and the BBC Journalist had to wear one too. You know, them villages off the beaten track, not those tourist wealthy areas they only like the outside world to see.

 

Once Khadafi's compound was taken the loyalists simply ran off.

 

Either they did or they've regrouped, you don't know for certain, you have nothing to believe but corporate media.

You see once Saddam fell, his people turned on him. The same can't be said for Gaddafi, why? Because maybe he's not as bad as our nations like to paint him to be. I mean if he's so bad, how come only a couple of years ago, all our nations were sucking his behind, you wouldn't see our leaders doing the same with Hitler or Saddam, or Mugabe for instance so why him?...

Also haven't you heard of British and American secret services torturing terrorist suspects? How do you know Gaddafi was not doing the same?

 

I have been all over Arabia.. Saudi women wear Abaya.. foreign journalists do so for effect. It isn't required.

 

That's not how it was reported, but if you say so, MR Encyclopedia of the Middle East and of all truth.

 

I am female... American women have always dressed modestly , but except for a brief period after the Iranian revolution Americans don't wear the Abaya or Hijab.

We didn't wear Abaya or Hijab when we lived in Tripoli either.

 

Anyway, doesn't change the facts that many Saudi women have to wear full Abayas in incredibly hot conditions, simply because of religious laws, better suited to the middle ages, not the 21st century.

Plus I've never supported the idea that women were forced to wear such articles when in Libya, as is why I've said more than once that people had more freedom in Libya, and possibly more opportunities. A monarchy means any loon who's next in line to the throne gets to become the de-facto dictator of the country, no matter his principles, desires, piety, ect, which is clearly a tyrannical form of national leadership, especially when it's clear it's a system which is harsher to women than men simply based on religious law and controls.

Once in a while the oppressed citizens get to watch a spectacle in an arena, hey let's all watch while this woman gets her head cut off and her blood spills all over the sand, because we're still living in the medieval times, the only thing that stops Saudi Arabia from becoming another Iran is obviously it's ties with the west and its oil, because aside from this, there's very little difference between Iranian law and Saudi law in my eyes.

 

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=pa...tart=0&ndsp=15&ved=1t:429,r:3,s:0&tx=67&ty=73

 

Saudi Arabia is NOTHING like Iran.. The Saudi leadership is highly skilled and completely dedicated to the economic and social progress of the people..

The Sudeiri Six are all cautious reformers.

Saudi Arabia is NOT a monarchy in the sense of European monarchies.. They rule by consensus of the people and the line of succession is decided very differently.

Do you know any Saudi women? Have you ever asked them about their rights or why they wear abaya?

As I said I spent 2 decades in Arabia .. and I know some of the leaders personally..

More to the point look at their track record over the past 60 years...

 

Try it and see.

 

Perhaps Margot could tell the forum what the OFFICIAL sect of Islam is in Saudi Arabia and give us a precis of their history, beliefs and activities outside Saudi Arabia. All this bunk Margot tries to peddle about the democratic moderate Saudis is really starting to annoy me, so let's make things clear

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabi

 

Al Wahhab had two objectives ... to rid the Arabian peninsula of the innovations, icons and household idols introduced by the Ottoman Empire and to rid the Arabian peninsula of the Turks.

King's Fahd's legacy was to build mosques all over the world for established Muslim congregations.

He also funded small schools in Pakistan for poor boys.

Its not particularly sinister and its NOT a sect of Islam. Its simplicity.. rejecting unauthenticated Hadiths that were written hundreds of years after Mohammed.. They didn't want Islam to turn into an exercise in convoluted legalisms and loopholes.

 

Margot, stop spinning -- please.

You don't see hard-core Socialists defending the Rote Armee Fraktion either.

 

What are you talking about? You have never been in Saudi Arabia and you have never in your life been around or talked with any Wahhabis.

 

On the radio today I heard a NATO spokesperson use a phrase which I hope will come back to bite NATO asses at the United Nations. It was " humanitarian bombing " .
I ask you, folks, look at what NATO has done and ask yourself if its governments really represent you . Do you truly support ' humanitarian bombing ' ?

 

The poverty-stricken woman who has been widowed as a direct result of Western "humanitarian interventionism" can at least console herself that she potentially has the freedom to choose between tweedle-dee and tweedle-dum once every five years.

 

Humanitarian bombing that kick starts a humanitarian crisis after already killing many humans.. Oh how very humane.

 

What do you think was happening in Libya?