No, Trump Isn’t Guilty of Incitement

Just curious:
How long do you plan to blame Trump for Biden's failures?
At what point do Biden's failure become his fault?

 

None. I have acted with others to help them set up their own businesses in the UK - mainly retail. One failure when the owner would not listen to advice. I know how business works. I also know you don't need to be 'tough' with people. I agree that, shall we call it 'firmness' is necessary. Toughness is force and achieves little in the long run. You may achieve your short-term goal but people will be wary of dealing with you in the long run. Still, that's your affair. I'm retired a long time and enjoying my retirement. This from an English Newspaper which sentiments I agree with wholeheartedly.

Most of Trump’s supporters would probably recoil from the charge that they’re pushing America toward civil war and revolutionary carnage. To accept the Big Lie, however, requires you to believe that the entire US justice system, in which even Trump-nominated judges rejected every baseless claim of electoral fraud asserted by his legal team, is also part of the conspiracy. And such a widespread rejection of courts and the law would shatter the political and social stability on which the country’s free-market capitalism depends.

Unsurprisingly, many corporations and institutions have cut ties with Trump and his businesses and suspended contributions to those congressional Republicans who challenged Biden’s victory. Many of the party’s mega-donors have also turned off the cash spigot, worrying about reputational damage from being seen to support Trump’s false election claims and the ensuing Capitol riot.

If the party has an ideology it’s what the French call je-m’en-foutisme, a contemptuous indifference toward others

What, really, does the Republican party believe in now other than the imperative of maintaining Trump in power? So long as the party clings to Trump’s Lost Cause, it rejects business, law and order, national unity, the constitution, fiscal responsibility, traditional morality, democratic norms and nearly everything else that Republicans once claimed to stand for. Guardian.

Good Luck

 

Actually, people that genuinely give a damn don't dance around distorting the facts. "Actions taken" are not only selective to be used as political weapons, they are cosmetic. When entire congress was proven to be involved and profiting from insider trading (revealed by CBS) they acted shocked, as if they had no idea that was illegal. So, they acted righteous and passed a law being sure members of congress could not do that in the future. Of course- nobody was charged or prosecuted, because after all, they are "honorable". After the dust settled, one year later- a very small piece of legislation bill popped up suddenly and was unanimously passed in 30 seconds with out discussion- in both houses. No advance publicity of any kind. That small paragraph created a barrier to anyone being able to find out what investments members of congress were making- it made their investment activities invisible.

The congress has found fit to remove two members is 155 years- that is the degree to which there are consequences. During that same period of time, many members of congress have been convicted of a variety of felonies and been sentenced to prison. The hypocrisy of congress when it come to ethics and self-discipline is obscene; a joke. I'm not suggesting you take my word for these things- look them up.

On one hand, you promote the idea that kindness is wisdom. However, kindness is kindness, and sometimes quite beneficial- but often is used improperly and very unwisely.
There's a time to be kind- and a time to be firm. Is the act of giving a panhandler money wise and kind when it is used to sustain his drug addiction?
How about giving an unmotivated person support of living costs, which makes it unnecessary for them to learn to support themselves?

We now have laws in almost all states against feeding wild animals, because we know it disrupts their own ability to feed themselves and they become dependent on hand-outs. In fact, in National Parks, rescuing an animal in distress is also not done in most cases, as they have found that the best balance in nature is achieved when we don't interfere. You should consider the difference between a hand-up and a hand-out, because that works in the same way.

There are times and ways we can help- and others when we should not. One of our big problems is the addiction to living on Other People's Money, and that addiction being fed by politicians buying votes by promising it. Governments have never been able to discriminate between beneficial help and harmful help, and never will.

Frequently if I go through a fast-food pick-up lane and there are cars behind me, I've taken to paying for the next person as well as myself. I don't get a thank you, because I'm gone before they know it. A true kindness (sadly, something the left seems to be unable in themselves to find these days) produces benefits of some kind. Paying for the next person is a random act, and it tends to shift people's view of their fellow man quite a bit- at least for awhile. Once someone starts this, as I try to do- the next car can pass it forward at no expense, by paying for the car behind them with the money they expected to pay for their own. Recently a busy Dairy Queen in Minneapolis had that happen, and 108 cars in a row passed it on. In the end, nobody but the first person paid extra, and nobody but the last got anything free- but they all gained something from it. None will come to depend on it, and some of them will decide they would like to be first, and will start it again. That's kindness that anyone can do.

Respect is a kindness, and it usually results in being both returned to you and then passed forward to the next person that individual meets.
As you read posts here- note how many are hostile and open with insults before they get around to alleging facts? Shall we call that "wisdom and kindness"? I'd hope not.
People can be whatever they want. They can end this outrageous behavior anytime they choose.
But they are all waiting for someone else to be nice first- and if that happens, most of them will see it as weakness and become even more abusive.
That's because our society has proven itself to be losing the character and self-respect that was common in the past, and that sadly is a choice to become less of a human being. Nobody makes you do that, people do it to themselves because they lack the maturity to value and keep their self-respect. IF that doesn't change soon, things are going to get a lot worse- and none of this has anything to do with Trump. You may not like him, but the way you choose to act is your responsibility, not anyone else's.

 

It was in the context of Trump having a political future and how he might damage it.

 

Should I say, "Of course."

@spiritgide seems to think he's in a position to educate the rest of us about business. I don't see it, frankly.

 

From the perspective of a person who has owned businesses for 53 years- I can say that the forces damaging the nation right now have little to do with Trump. He's been a trigger and a focal point, but his prime objective was to turn the country away from what is happening now. He was too late; and he gave the people credit for having more moral fiber than they do. This mess didn't start five years ago- it began with the hippie days when parents stopped raising their children and just let them grow up with out structure. It was exaggerated by the child psychologists embracing the idea that bad behavior was a medical condition and should be treated with drugs rather than discipline. It was further exaggerated by the tolerance of liberals in colleges who took those issues and made a philosophy of them- and attacked the basic moral structure of the students themselves. Trump was always a temporary figure, as all presidents are. From the day he announced he would run, he has been under constant attack, and every under-handed scam you can imagine has been used to try to destroy him- in order to keep him from causing a reform, a revitalization of people's spirit and pride in their nation. Those are exactly what is being attacked by our left. If you ask yourself why anyone would want the population to become weak and gullible and dependent, you are not going to come up with anything but an ugly answer. It is this and all the abuses the movement has granted itself authority for that risks civil war. We have democrats suggesting we need to put those who disagree with them in re-education camps. These are the same people who excused arson, looting and a massive list of crimes as peaceful protest. We're dealing with spoiled child mentality- not adult reason and logic.

Assuming the nation is still here two years from now, and assuming the vote will actually be legitimate, I expect the people will turn over both houses of congress- because of the damage that will be done by the Biden administration. Assuming Biden lives out his first term, he will be facing the next republican candidate. This will probably be a Trump platform with a charismatic leader who is more widely acceptable in personality; more astute in the tactics of politicians.

Unfortunately, the role of the media has been huge is providing a great deal of misinformation. The once sacred ethics of journalism are gone; we have programmed talking heads in their place most of the time. One must carefully sort through the trash to find facts, and it's not easy. But when you can get broad and balanced information, and if you can look at ti without bias, it's very clear that the intent is usually not to report news- but to create false conclusions and beliefs.

Every Trump supporter knows Trump's faults. If he were a plumber, he would have his crack showing, have a stinky cigar, be prone to cursing and loud language- and be the best plumber you could find anywhere.
I've compared him to Gen. George Patton of WWII. His troops loved him; the Germans feared him above all others- and the politicians loathed him for not being willing to use politics to replace military strategy. Of course, the politicians won- and lost. Trump's goals were exactly what the nation needed. The endless list of offenses thrown at him are mostly fabrications, and you may have noticed that they evaded dealing with the things most presidents are expected to do- strengthen the economy, improve jobs and the quality of living. He did those things very well- so they attacked him on other grounds, most of which are of far less important in terms of results. They inverted priorities, convinced people to think in the shallowest of terms. We were naive enough to allow it.

Now- we are going to see what happens when you allow the people corrupt enough to do that to run the show. It's going to be ugly.

 

The guy on drugs has to want to get clean before he turns to plans on taking care of himself.

You still don't understand the problem. The return to labor isn't enough for many people whose income depends on what they make on the job.



You keep talking about OPiuM (Other People's Money) when the reality is that the system is rigged against workers. Even if it wasn't rigged, just the natural operation of a capitalist system in an age of computers puts the worker at a disadvantage.

Rigged? Right-to-work laws. Low tax rates for returns on investment. Poor education systems, from K-12 to various forms of worker training.

True respect and kindness is supporting an economic system that allows Joe and Jane American to earn a decent living from their labor.

 

Nonsense. Trump exploited the fault lines in society for his personal gain and glory. He promised not to cut the top rate on personal income taxes, then turned right around and gave 85% of the tax cuts to people making more than $400,000 a year. If that wasn't enough, he proposed we limit protection for preexisting medical conditions to existing policies.

He shows zero interest in or understanding of your argument.

You're completely out of touch with today's "helicopter" parents.

The pharmaceutical industry is behind drugging kids, not psychologists.

Propaganda.

He has always been a menace, not a moral force.

You and your pals are as way out as the leftists you decry.

Propaganda Alert!

Rose colored glasses.

I don't think you could even begin to advance an argument about how to speed up economic growth.

Joe Biden is center-left and you guys are way out on the right.

 

Your business experience has zero bearing on this situation. If you think you see any similarity, I say you are not seeing clearly. Trump's prime objective that I saw VERY CLEARLY FOR THREE YEARS, has consistently been the creation of a despotic dictatorship in the example of his "friends" Kim and Putin. Everything pointed in that direction, and his final and desperate attempt to steal an election with unsupported lies was the culmination.

Liz Cheney summed it up with facts that expose your twaddle for what it is. Your blinders are second in effectiveness only to those of Dutch.

 

Now, regarding the subject of this thread, it is transparently obvious that Trump most certainly incited the seditious attack on the Capitol and congresspeople who work there when we 1. review the inciting comments in his speech immediately prior to the siege including his words that "we have to be strong" or we will "lose our country" etc. etc. etc. etc, and 2. we listen to the taped comments AT THE CAPITOL BY AN INSURGENT who is heard saying "we were invited! The President invited us here!"

ANY attempt to claim Trump didn't incite it and wasn't ultimately responsible for it, is simply struggling to replace facts with lies as was taught by Joseph Goebbels who said:
"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

 

All you saw has been dominated by the hatred held for Trump. Every expert in the area of psychology knows that there are things that can cause people to totally lose perspective- and the top two are hate and love, with jealousy and envy close behind.

Such people blind themselves to everything they don't want to see, that doesn't support what they want to believe, and distorts their ability to prioritize so that the reasons they hate become tho only valid ones they can see. Really a crappy position to be in. Kind of like living in the pit under an outhouse, your view of the world doesn't show you anything nice. No balance, no capacity to see beyond the place you have voluntarily put yourself in. Such people never ask themselves why they do that- they wallow in it.

Your judgement here comes in as a negative on the 1-10 scale.