Now, the liberals move to control your diet....

They eat mainly carbs, just as do most Asians (you know, the skinny folk). What they don't eat is loads of meat and cheese. Or at least, they never used to.

What do you mean by 'once you are overweight'? We're not discussing fatties here, we're discussing how to avoid becoming one.

LOL at your claim the bun is the devil in that burger. That's pretty derned ridiculous. I guarantee if two people ate one or the other (the bun, or the contents) every day for a month, the fattest and least healthy at the end of the month would be the person who ate the contents.

 

Whose problem is it? Not those of us who exercise that self-discipline. Not Govt's either. And on the contrary, we're not demanding anything. We're pointing out that it's all a choice. You want a society with freedom of choice? Then you accept that not everyone will choose success.

The Progressive Left has a HUGE problem with accepting that people with the freedoms of a democracy can and do choose failure. That's offensively paternalistic, and it assumes we're all identical.

 

Children aren't buying, adults are. Are you saying adults can't control themselves? This is the same as your 'women can't control themselves' stuff in the abortion threads.

And if you ARE saying grown adults are so childlike that they must be protected from themselves at every turn, why don't you just admit that?

 

That is part of it. Another part is that the younger generation is eating more processed oily food that you see in Asian restaurants and even some of that imported fast food. Portion sizes are also increasing a lot.

However they are still eating a lot healthier than Americans. Part of this is simply that their food is on average a lot healthier. Sure, they eat too much rice, but we eat too much white bread and drink too much soda. Also, research finds that junk food actually makes you hungrier and more likely to binge.

 

Nobody has complete self-control. And don't tell me you haven't gone out planning to just get groceries and didn't return with a little extra. This is because junk food was engineered and manipulated in labs to hack our brains and use the same neural pathways and crack cocaine. These foods were made to be extremely difficult to resist.

The only method of self-control that is really effective is removing yourself from situations where you need to use it and making it harder for you to make that bad choice. So keeping the candy away from the checkout helps many people who are struggling with food addition. And if you aren't, then walk to the aisles and grab your bag of chips there.

The problem with obesity is that it doesn't just impact you. Its a problem with our entire culture and makes it difficult eat right when junk food is everywhere you go. Obesity increases the cost on our healthcare system and those healthcare premiums and taxes you and I pay. Children are affected by the choices of their parents and learn some bad habits.

I'm not calling for a ban or anything. I'm just asking that we have the same reasonable taxes and regulations we have on cigarettes and alcohol already for similar reasons.

 

the science says no, that is why the stores put it there

they are not being denied the right to buy candy, just not in the checkout lane

trying to ban candy is like trying to ban abortion, that is not what happened here

are you saying adults can't walk a few extra feet to get their candy fix

why not put alcohol or cigarettes in the checkout line... is it because adults have no control?

 

You prove my point. People who aren't willing to be responsible provide and endless string of reasons. Some of those same people are the ones writing the explanations to help you re-enforce your belief, which is their belief. If you buy it, they are confirmed. I'm not saying this is a lazy trait, I'm saying it's the easier way out; you don't have to question the validity of what you believe and risk discovering you have had it wrong all your life. The failures prove it, but people don't want those to be their responsibility. You mention obesity. How many people have you ever heard take responsibility for all the diet and exercise cheating that invariably is behind their failure? In case- they know they are doing that, but the rationalize it to the point they can believe it wasn't their fault. Of course, avoiding tests hardly makes you stronger; it confirms that hiding from them works... and keeps you right where you are.

You are trying to convince yourself that some mental or genetic defect prevents you from having full control over your own life decisions. If you can do that, you are off the hook. You dodge the bullet- you think. Are you mentally, genetically defective? I doubt it. It's the easiest way to avoid stepping up. You are fighting for your right not to be responsible for improving yourself- for not trying harder. Actually the answer is not "working harder", it's "working smarter". It's like curing the disease so all the symptoms leave forever, as opposed to needing to treat the symptoms everyday for the rest of your life.

You have convinced yourself it's not your fault, that you are powerless to resist this social evil bred into you. So- you have won. Unfortunately, what you have lost is vastly greater.
You have my sympathy.
If you are lucky, there will come a day when you may remember what I've told you- and be ready to risk believing it. IF you are lucky.

Of all the people I did growth programs for, I was shocked to find that the ones who did the best, the ones most ready to change- were recovering drug addicts that had hit bottom so hard all that trash they had used to tell themselves why they couldn't was shattered. No excuses left; no trash left on the table.

 

Well sure, when it comes to something physical. Obviously a person can only physically run for so long. But self control regarding a “diet” and exercising can absolutely last a lifetime. And by “diet” I mean the way one eats as in a healthy lifestyle. And by exercising I mean at least 4 to 5 days a week of rigorous exercising such as strength training and cardio. I’ve been exercising like that since I was 15...I’m now 53. I’ve been eating healthy since I was about 25. Long term self control is in fact possible.

 

No, it's all of it. A massive increase in consumption of meat and dairy - both of which were quite rare in Asia until recently.

Bread has always been eaten in Asia (in various forms). As well as super sweet drinks!

 

Irrelevant. It's all a freely made choice. And I can indeed walk through a supermarket without buying anything but coffee, tea, beans and rice. I've been doing it for years.

As to the cost on the healthcare system, exclusions for obesity are long overdue. Like smokers, the obese should be uninsurable.

 

I agree that a healthy diet can be done over a long lifetime. But there are some factors here to consider:
1. Genetics. Some people are just born with less craving for food. Like my Cousins have a house with plenty of junk food and they eat barely anything like their mom but not like their dad. Some people just naturally have better self control in general and just seem to be born with an advantage.
2. Previous lifestyle. If your lifestyle has already been healthy and you have made a habit of healthy eating then there isn't much of a temptation. In the same way people who never smoke don't have that smoking urge. Bad habits can be hard to break and good habits really help.
3. As I said, self-control is like a muscle. Some people had an issue with food but slowly built that muscle and at the time formed those good habits.

What I said makes it sound easy to be healthy, but it isn't easy for most people. Some people struggle with obesity and food disorders their entire life and struggle to eat right. Its not something that you may be able to relate to, but its an issue for a lot of people. Some people attempt diet after diet, and fail over and over again. Its kinda sad actually.

Most people who are overweight don't want to be that way and have made attempts to change, but those attempts have failed. And 90% of those people who manage to succeed and lose the weight eventually gain it all back. 67% of our country is now overweight and obese. I hope its clear now that food is a bigger issue for most people than it is for you.

 

I'm asking YOU why you won't admit that adults are making these decisions freely. Once you admit that and embrace it, you can move past feeling as though you have to fix it - or that it's any of your business in the first place. If a grown adult freely chooses to be obese, what right do you have to interfere with that choice?

 

same reason we do not allow cigarettes or alcohol in the check out lanes

if one wants to be obese, one still can be, just have to walk over to the candy aisle

I am not saying you can't be obese, no one is saying that, no one is banning candy

 

I have met many Japanese people and they tell me that they just have a lot more sugary, processed, and oily food now. And portion sizes are up.

One problem is that the food industry will combine natural foods, but use the most delicious and addicting ones in far too high quantities. E.g. bacon wrapped steak. So you can have ingredients that individually that are healthy in moderate quantities but combine to be very unhealthy. Like steak and rice.

 

the longest person to live was a smoker of almost 100 years of smoking, so please stop with your nonsense that we should deny smokers health care

when a non-smoker takes that title, let us know

eating high carb and smoking, bad combo - all those excessive carbs weaken the body

the real danger to ones health is processed foods with grains, seed oils and sugar - you know, the government recommended diet

the reason we have an obesity problem is the governments dietary recommendations

 

Your proposal to exclude the obese from insurance is a guaranteed failure. I admit that taxes on junk food isn't popular right now. But dumping 1/3 of the population off of health insurance is political suicide and doesn't have a chance.

What might be more acceptable is to make people pay for their impact on taxpayers and insurance payers with higher taxes on certain foods. We can also try to encourage insurance plans that provide discounts to people with healthy lifestyles. These more moderate proposals are more workable in the real world.

I get that you choose what you eat. And I don't want to take that away from you. All I'm saying is more regulation and taxes. You can still buy that bag of chips. It will just cost a few dollars more. In the same way, buying alcohol and cigarettes is a freely made choice and we regulate and tax them too.

 

Disagree, meat is good for you, meat and vegetables - do not eat more carbs then you can safely process and store in the liver

 

yep, and adults can walk to the candy isle just fine if they want to buy it, just like smokers can walk over to buy smokes or drinkers can walk over to buy alcohol

 

I didn't get these reasons from obese people making up excuses. I got them from actual scientists and research. One of my examples was the famous marshmallow study that everyone will learn about in psychology class.

No, I'm not saying people should just become glutton and just give up. People need to avoid situations where they need to use their self control. They need to understand that self control is a muscle and a limited resource and needs practice to get stronger.

Some obese people don't really want to lose weight that much. They are fine with being fat and aren't trying to use self-control at all. But many other are really trying hard, they definitely do blame themselves, sometimes extraordinarily harshly to an unhealthy extent. I don't think we have complete free will, but that doesn't mean we have no free will at all. So we do have a lot of responsibility for our choices, but we also have a lot of psychological weaknesses as well.

That just isn't the right thing to say to someone who has a serious problem like binge eating disorder. Research has objectively found a strong genetic component to obesity. Most people who have a mental or food disorder aren't lying around not blaming themselves. They understand that they will have a tougher time than most people, but also that they have responsibility for their lives too.

But looking at those people, very few actually stopped doing drugs cold turkey one day. Getting over drug addiction is a long and difficult process of building those self control muscles and new habits. And the most effective way method is to go into a recovery center if they can afford it. They remove themselves from the drugs, and the center provides them with alternative versions of the drugs to wean them off of addiction. These center don't just tell them to grit their teeth and use that self control. They are smarter than that. They get that people's chances of success rise significantly when methods are used that are backed by research not ideology.

 

part of the problem is we won't tell obese people how to lose weight, insulin is a fat storage hormone, to reduce insulin you have to reduce carbs

reduce carbs and calories and you will lose weight

once you lose the weight, you can add some more cards back in, moderate carbs

if one doesn't get the hormones under control, the body is gonna tell brain it's hungry and not give you access to use the fat as energy and keep storing more and more fat and keep telling you your hungry

this is easily proven by people that give themselves injections of insulin in the same spot over and over, the insulin is a fat storage hormone

 

How can people without knowledge of diet and good-health learn the facts, when private enterprise is determined to hide the facts, aided and abetted by the (mind-numbing) junk advertising industry?

That leaves out c.40 million people who are not in the "productive working class"......

Obesity rates c.40%? ie c.120 million people?

Indeed.

 

It's not as simple as you think.

See the debate here

http://www.politicalforum.com/index...ction-boogeyman.578417/page-6#post-1072079509

posts #137 and #138.

 

Speaking of Paine's pamphlet "Common Sense", you also need to consider the debate linked in the post above (unless you want to remain mired in RW ideology).

 

SOYLENT GREEN!!!!!

 

No, it's cheap processed food they're eating.