Obama Supporters

Forgive? Is that a joke?

 

And there's a few more certainties in there as well..

1 - President-elect Obama devised a "recovery plan" of a billion dollars.
2 - There has been a lot less "recovery" than hoped.
3 - President Obama, in glowing terms promised "hope and change" ...where is that?
4 - President Obama has driven up the deficit to its highest ever in history and it continues to grow while the economy lags behind lesser, third tier powers.
5 - President Obama lied about closing Gitmo
6 - President Obama has expanded international spying and domestic snooping hundreds of times beyond that of the criminal [in your incessant nattering], Bush.
7 - President Obama lied about "it was a spontaneous demonstration" and "I said it was a terrorist attack from the beginning."
8 - Under president Obama the nation has come to the brink of financial collapse more dramatically and more often than under any other president
9 - President Obama has expanded drone bombings many times over Bush with very questionable results.
10- President Obama's middle east policy has been a disaster, he has lost the confidence of all concerned, took the nation to the brink of yet another war needlessly and humiliated himself and the country on the international stage.

But, these are all Bush's fault......

 

For a one note pony like you, that's rich.

It's Bush's fault.


Just cut a template .....

 

I'm sure you have a very impressive repertoire of rhetorical BS to draw from.

 

My but these are astounding revelations! The kind you hear from Rush Limbaugh, or if you happen to have a Tea Party pamphlet handy.

 

He draws them from his rich and analytical brain not an angry chasm in his trousers, I'd bet.

LOL

 

Your standard for rich and analytical seems somewhat modest, apparently not a very high expectation.

 

I have not sought nor happened upon the limits of his intellect.

But I had a good idea of the mediocre operating system employed by his opposition in that exchange.

 

Judging by your responses I'd say mediocrity seems to be your area of expertise.....you have a special flair for the mediocre.

 

Hmmm, the trouble with that is....

1/ & 2/ There has indeed been recovery, very little but certainly amongst first world powers it has been comparable and is to be expected in a low growth world economy. The US is considered to be doing better than Austerity Britain for example.

3/ Hope & Change is here; the ACA represents that, deficit reduction repesents that. Gays in the military represents that.

4/ A necessary development in fiscal policy to cope with a crisis, since then fiscal matters have improved.

5/ He didnt lie, he changed his mind. He wanted trials in the USA but there was too much opposition to that from right wing nutters again so he had to compromise.

6/ Nonsense, these snooping scandals were mostly made up though of course, he does snoop on terrorists and national enemies more than ever. Which is a very good thing.

7/ No in fact it people like yourself and the right wing of politics who lied. The US military done the best it could and Obama called it an act of terror. The US public believed him and he floored Mitt Romney in debate over the matter.

8/ Obama has repeatedly compromised with his political opponents over fiscal and budgetary policy. The problem is the right wing dont realise that while spending should be reduced the bills must be paid also.

9/ Good news, these drones are far more effective and cheaper than piloted aircraft.

10/ Nonsense, the arab spring happened all by itself, he helped europe get rid of Gaddafy, and sought action against Syria. But he is not going to blunder the US into another unsupported war like GW Bush did - you agree with that dont you?



Did you really think you could just air this stupid laundry list of right wing accusations and that no one could counter them? Or did you just want to get something off your chest?

 

I think he must have forgotten a few items, he seems to have omitted several important points.....

11. The President was born in Kenya.
12. The President is a secret Muslim.
13. The President is also a black radical Christian.
14. The President plans to impose Sharia Law.
15. The President has plans to confiscate all guns.
16. The President worships Karl Marx.
17. The President hates America
etc, etc.......did I miss anything?

 

Well, you did ask politely.

 

Well to be fair, 2009 belongs to Bush, and then your chart tells a different story doesn't it?

 

Obamacare is playing a big part, yes, and so is Federal Reserve policy. Get out of paper money and get out of this BS federal system as much as you can.

 

You mean the very same 'Nothing is EVER my fault!' Obama who endlessly demands raising of the debt ceiling? That Obama?

 

So if there was a Republican president, so you think he won't ask to raise the debt ceiling? Let the nation default on their loans and abruptly shut down government programs? Is that your solution to the debt and the economy?

Oh wait, maybe give some more tax cuts to the rich, that should solve our problems!!

 

Who knows what the next republican president in 2016 will do to fix all of the hideous problems caused by Obama and the DEM leadership?

 

The Democrats didn't win a majority until the 2006 midterm elections. By the time the Democrats actually took office in January of 2007, the crisis had already begun. The first stimulus package happened that spring.

- - - Updated - - -

What's the alternative to raising the debt ceiling?

 

It's this concept called Balancing the Budget. Once upon a time the Democratic Party was in general favor of the notion. Oh . . . and by the way, the worst economic crisis has happened on Obama's watch as he allowed -- with nary a bit of effort to halt it -- our nation to reach the 16 trillion dollars low water mark of grinding national debt.

 

Balancing the budget isn't going to happen all at once. That's simply an impossibility. It will have to be a slow process, one that steps up, because you don't just cut billions upon billions of dollars of funding for all the various programs it goes to all at once. That is 100% guaranteed to make things exponentially worse as all the various systems that have been built upon that money being spent will collapse, public and private alike. The economy will rupture. Raising the debt ceiling is an absolute necessity. We didn't get into this debt all at once, and we aren't going to get out of it all at once either. The debt ceiling will have to be raised until the gradual process of bringing the budget deficits down has balanced it. Politicians know this, including the Republicans, but they choose to use the debt ceiling as a bargaining chip, something it is absolutely not. It's more brinkmanship from a party trying to convince us that they are fiscally responsible.

Around here, that's what we call plain old fashioned bull(*)(*)(*)(*).

 

Um the debt ceiling is a bargaining chip. Whether or not it is an effective one for them this time around remains to be seen. Also, news flash, at this point in what appears to be deliberately created national debt on a scale never before seen in the history of humanity [by BOTH Bush and Obama and -- for that matter -- the bulk of the leadership of both parties] mere budget cutting is not going to -- er -- cut it anymore. I don't know what will, in all honesty, but you DO NOT eliminate or even reduce in any meaningful manner what is projected to be 20 trillion dollars of national debt by the time Obama leaves office . . . merely by tightening the federal budget.

 

Yes you do, that's how it starts. First you must stop the budget gap from increasing, and then you keep working backwards from there until you're reducing it down to a balanced budget. Once there, then you begin allocating money to start paying down the debt. None of that can happen all at once without shocking the economy in a very negative way. You have to think of it in terms of addiction and how you must ween the addict off the substance they are addicted to. You go slowly and gradually to allow the body time to adjust. Same deal here. The public and private sectors will need to gradually adjust to less money, because even money spent on entitlement programs affects the private sector. They are intertwined. You're not going to reduce federal spending without seeing repercussions in private markets.

Allowing the United States to default on it's debt creates a whole host of problems that will make it exponentially more difficult to actually balance the budget. A default would hit the entire world economy, which in turn would make it harder to balance the budget. This is not a bargaining chip, it's a necessity. If you're interested in balancing the budget, you don't play games with a U.S. default.

 

Excellent points . . . but it is still a bargaining chip. Whether or not it really should be is a matter for debate, but that it is being used as a bargaining chip is beyond dispute.

 

That's essentially what I meant. It is definitely being used as a bargaining chip and it absolutely shouldn't be, by either side, ever.

 

Were that a given then it would not be a power inside the Constitution reserved for the House of Representatives. Now the issue really is . . . were they correct this time around to resort to its use. Time will tell.