On the idea of slavery reparation in America

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by stan1990, Aug 11, 2020.

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Do you agree on the idea of slavery reparation for a Black_American?

Poll closed Sep 10, 2020.
  1. Yes

    14.3%
  2. No

    81.0%
  3. Not sure

    4.8%
  1. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    You are judging all Black American citizens by the actions of a small percentage of that group. You pretend that you are making a distinction, but you start by lumping them together - "As blacks commit 4 times ...". You need to say that a small percentage of black Americans commit violent crime or you are just rationalizing your racism.
     
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  2. Esperance

    Esperance Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It has been longer than that.

    The seven generations that I mentioned is just from 1865 on.
     
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  3. 21Bronco

    21Bronco Well-Known Member

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    According to Thomas Sowell and economic records, blacks were doing well economically until FDR.

    Afterwards, marriage rates plummeted and black unemployment spiked. Sure, there were civil rights issues still needing to be addressed.
     
  4. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Donor

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    I always have mentioned that the black criminal element was only a part of the black population. That's hardly racist, it's fact. It also true that the general black population can't seem to separate itself from it's sub-culture of thugs- and that is more than unfortunate, because that is what causes all black people to suffer the stigma of the black crime rate and the image it sustains. .

    The numbers are solid in defining the fact that blacks kill 4 times their proportion of the IS population. Robbery, several other crimes the same. The idea that this is not a black problem is a ludicrous joke- and white people cannot change it, only black people can. They have to stop forgiving crime because the criminal is black- start being offended by the fact that some of their people are harming all of them, far more than anything white people do.

    They are going to have to draw a line between the civilized and uncivilized, and stop defending the race as if all were the same.

    You are right in that this is only a percentage of blacks- but I've not found a way to support saying what that percentage is. According to one black author, there are three sub-cultures. The first are good citizens, the last are trash, and the ones in the middle play both sides of the street when it's convenient- they are the more cautious, more careful about being caught. Bottom line, he considers them not much better than the worst, because they still lack the character to self-regulate.

    What percentage? Got any support for deeming it "small"?
     
  5. God & Country

    God & Country Well-Known Member

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    I think the idea of reparations is a political scheme on the order every other handout the Democrats concocted over the last fifty years. They are vast, expensive and temporary and only occur in election years. The Democrat "war on poverty" has been going on for over fifty years and billions have been spent and absolutely nothing has changed because it was never meant to. It was always a carrot dangling from the end of a stick. This great evil has produced multiple generations of people who are a great liability to the country because the do not work, have never worked and believe that they are entitled to be taken care of from cradle to grave. This runs deep and is perpetuated by the Democrat narrative that they have been abused, neglected and discriminated against and never given a fair shake. This narrative was once true but much has happened in fifty years to change that both in law and societal attitudes, it no longer exists. The Democrats know that the party's over and since that narrative doesn't play anymore they've re-written it by revisiting the events of a hundred fifty years ago to breath some life into their tale. They're telling America that racism is resurgent and rampant and to prop it up have agitated and promoted nationwide "protests". Like all other handouts it would be expensive, temporary and achieve nothing. It will cost trillions and when the money's gone they'll just say it wasn't enough. As I've mentioned this before on this forum, we should only give reparations to black Americans who are old enough to have suffered under Jim Crow. I think a few thousand dollars a month and a decent place to live would fit the bill. How could anyone argue with this?
     
  6. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    As opposed to the black community, judging all white individuals for the actions of those who are no longer alive? Even when those being judged are not the descendants of anyone who was involved with the ownership or trafficking of slaves?

    Judging others works both ways.
     
  7. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    More than one side can be wrong at the same time. Rationalizing racism ("... they do it also...") is still racism.
     
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  8. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    "Small" because most violent crime is repeat offenders. So when you say "violent crime rates are higher," because X% of crime is committed by black people, you speak as though each crime is committed by a separate black person. But we know there
    is a high repeat offender problem, so it's misleading to address it as a reflection on the whole community.

    But again, rationalizing bigotry and racism is still bigotry and racism. If you judge one person by the actions of others, not his own, that is the very definition of bigotry.
     
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  9. Moriah

    Moriah Well-Known Member

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    Reparations are sure on the minds of a lot of people. I wonder why?
     
  10. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    It is known and understood that both sides can be equally wrong at the same time. Unfortunately such amounts to all of the discussion on the subject being pointless and for naught. Meaning the entire discussion turns into nothing more than a complete waste of time.
     
  11. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Donor

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    Which would make everyone calling all white people "white supremacists" bigots and racists. A lot of society today seems to want to make everything about race... and at the same time, don't give a damn about the people. The idea that you can apply rules where it's convenient and pass on them when they are not is also an abuse.

    The fact is- like it or not, what the people of any easily defined group do will be seen as defining the group. Not to say that is fair, but that is is true and practical.
    Animals in the wild define a predator because they belong to a group; they don't wait to see if a particular lion is a nice guy just moseying by- or a hungry predator.
    IF white dogs constituted 13% of the dog population but were responsible for 53% of the dog bites, YOU would be wary of white dogs. Not because of baseless prejudice, but because of statistical fact- and common sense.

    So stuff the bigot/racist crap, and just think of how the composite behavior defines the group- any group- and how the group itself determines what that will be.
    I feel quite sure for example that if a company found all the black people it hired to be exceptional, they would be looking for more black people to hire- the track record and common sense would say it was wise to do so. Same would be true if they found all people named Jones or all people with red hair exceptional. The perception that blacks carry an excessive risk of violence is documented- not speculative. Until you know someone, it's hard to know where they fit on the list, so the known factors become the determining ones. That is rational, not unreasonable- and not racist.

    If you act like an animal, you will be seen as an animal, and some will insist you be treated like an animal. Black. white or brown- makes no difference.. But you impact, as part of any group you belong too, the image of the group. IF you don't like what goes on in your group, and you cannot change (as in racial) then you best speak out against the evil rather than defend it, or you become one of them.
    That is an individual choice.
     
  12. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    Again, you are just rationalizing bigotry and racism. You are asserting that the minority should define the majority. You're saying that a black fireman in Atlanta is defined by a black thug in Chicago. I can say that white males shouldn't be allowed near schools because they are responsible for the vast majority of mass school shootings. Statistically, that would be right, but you would protest being included in that group, wouldn't you.

    Again, for those a bit slow on the uptake - rationalizing bigotry and racism does not change the fact that it's bigotry and racism.
     
  13. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Donor

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    Seems we DO have some data on the percentage of blacks who have criminal histories. From the Sentencing Project (https://www.sentencingproject.org/news/5593/)

    One-Third of Black Men Have Felony Convictions
    In “Growth in the U.S. Ex-Felon and Ex-Prisoner Population, 1948 to 2010,” Sarah Shannon and colleagues estimate that one-third of black men had a felony conviction in 2010—a significant increase over the past 30 years and far above the rate for white men. Published in Demography, the study develops national and state-level estimates for the frequency of both felony convictions and incarceration.

    The researchers found that the percentage of black men with a felony conviction increased from 13% in 1980 to 33% in 2010 (compared to 5% and 13% for all adult men during these periods, respectively). They also estimate that the percentage of black men who had experienced imprisonment increased from 6% in 1980 to 15% in 2010 (compared to 2% and 6% for all adult men during these periods, respectively). These estimates are “the first attempt to provide state-level demographic information about people with felony convictions in the United States, a population defined by incomplete citizenship and the temporary or permanent suspension of many rights and privileges.”

    Seems the more we tell people they are victims of racism and therefore entitled, the more we help, the more racist they become and set out to fix things by punishing everyone indiscriminately.

    I rate that as uncivilized, as one of the more lenient terms that could apply.
    Being black does not make people commit felonies. That is a choice they make, individually. Color does not excuse that- at least in people who ARE NOT racist. You have to be racially biased to do that.
     
  14. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    Again, you are using a minority of a group to judge the majority. Does a black person in Santa Fe have to control a black person he's never met and doesn't know in Chicago? You seem to think so.

    Are you willing to be labeled as a potential mass school shooter just because the majority of school shooters are white male?
    Why didn't you control that white shooter, you share his skin tone, so you must have some control on how he acts. This is what you are trying to say goes for black Americans - but you would hate it if we applied the same metric to you.
     
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  15. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    It's part of the DNC platform!
     
  16. Moriah

    Moriah Well-Known Member

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    I didn't know the DNC had adopted reparations as part of their platform. OK. We're making progress.
     
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  17. Moriah

    Moriah Well-Known Member

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    Thank you.
     
  18. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Donor

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    Using your metric, a large bear in Montana and and a large bear in Idaho should be seen differently. While it's true on might be somebody's pet or even a man masquerading in a bear suit, the person who fails to recognize the risk associated with the group these two belong to is to say the least, extremely naive.
    One in three black men have felony records. That exists because the person was caught and convicted. It does not consider all the crimes which are never solved or result in prosecution of the perpetrators, which ARE criminals, convicted of not. So it's safe to say that substantially more than 1/3 of black men have criminal histories. The "small percentage" seems to keep growing here when you simply use a little common sense.

    Now the reaction toward school shooters was, at most schools, to bar everyone who didn't have a reason to be in the school from entering. That's control of the premises- and a logical move.
    They still do allow students of all colors, and parents of all colors, once recognized. That recognizes the realities. That policy is however hard to apply in most places, so not relevant here.

    Are you willing to assume that a bear coming toward you has no bad intentions, despite you know a little bit about bears? Of course you are, because the last thing you want to do is "discriminate" and assume the bear is going to act badly because he looks like a bear. Good luck with that
    .
    It's not a matter of black people controlling each other. It's a matter of them controlling their own actions, the same as it is for any other race or identity group. They can do so if they chose to do so; no one makes them do otherwise- they create their own statistics. It is ludicrous to assume that the statistical averages will not enter into a rational, intelligent persons judgment- if they don't, he's probably not rational or intelligent. That doesn't mean he mistreats any person- it only means that he is more cautious because the probability of trouble is higher. Common sense.

    Even Jesse Jackson has expresses it, when he said:

    "If I'm walking alone at night and hear footsteps behind me, I'm always relieved to discover they are white footsteps."

    Jesse is associating the level of risk to his safety with the racial color of the person walking behind him. That would make him a racist and bigot, right there, wouldn't it?

    You never get the point, so don't expect you to grasp this one.
     
  19. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    You want government to take money from people who have never owned slaves to give to people who have never been slaves all in the name of feeling better about the slavery that existed more than 150 years ago. The logic escapes me. It is definitely not an appropriate role for government.
     
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  20. 21Bronco

    21Bronco Well-Known Member

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    Then take it back and give it to the hundreds of thousands of Republican troops that died to free the slaves. They're owed something, too.
     
  21. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    No, they aren't owed anything either. The civil war is over. Way over.
     
  22. Gdawg007

    Gdawg007 Well-Known Member

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    If I made you and your children and your grand children work for me for free, how much would you make me pay you? Since when is it the American way not to make someone whole when their rights were violated? Easy for you and me to say forget about it, it's ancient history, it didn't happen to me or my ancestors. Did it happen to yours?
     
  23. Gdawg007

    Gdawg007 Well-Known Member

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    Why not the democratic ones? Or do you believe the myth that all democrats were in the south back then...?

    Oh and those soldiers were paid and their families paid death benefits. So it's not like they were given nothing for their loss...unlike slaves.
     
  24. 21Bronco

    21Bronco Well-Known Member

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    Not all of them. Their families, if they had any, had to apply. They need reparations, too. Even though they're dead. After all, nobody receiving a reparation today was a slave in 1865, so it's all good and fair.
     
  25. Gdawg007

    Gdawg007 Well-Known Member

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    Every soldier in the Union army was paid. Not perhaps on time, but they all got paid most of what they were owed. And again, that's more than the slaves got paid. But hey, I am all for paying people their dues. If you can find families that are owed back pay, then let's pay them. I have zero problem with that.
     

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