Oops! Russian Military In Nato Country

There was a lot of communist propaganda, but there were also a lot of books on what was going on in Russia by those who had run out. I read some of the biographies on the Alexander Time Machine, and I'm sure those books had a lot to do with the rise of nationalism in Europe.

There are still people who are communists in Russia, and Vladimir Putin will not disrespect their beliefs, anymore than he will anyone else's. What he did say to some students, is that the Bolsheviks lied to the peasants that they were going to take the lands from the nobility and give it to them - which as we know they didn't. Also a bishop said that every beneficial institution in the Soviet Union was established by Tsar Nicholas II and not by Lenin's Bosheviks - which is logical. How could criminals establish anything productive?

As for the Russians, what they are and how they think comes as much, if not even more so from the Soviet Union, than from Imperial Russia and the Orthodox Church. So how can they look disparagingly on what became part of their make up? Also how could they condemn Stalin, when he helped them fight off the Germans who were exterminating them?

 

Personally, I would have preferred Mikael Gorbatjov but Putin is a very close second choice. Anyway, I guess if Gorbatjov could do it over again I guess he'd make the same mistake that cost him the presidency.

 

I think the only reason Putin was able to control the oligarchs as well as the governors who were very powerful, was because of his knowledge and connections with the Intelligence agencies. Otherwise he would have been dependent on the oligarchs like Yeltsin and our own politicians.

I think Washington's big mistake was that they assumed the oligarchs had the power in Russia to get rid of Putin, so they kept sanctioning them. Actually it was the other way around. Putin could have easily nationalized the industries.

He is a tsar even though he is elected because he's beholden to no one. I say this because he is able to do what is in Russia's best interests, rather than in his own interests and the interests of his supporters.

 

I think another word would be S-400 - which freaks out Washington.

 

Yes, I agree. Funny that the things about Putin that the American propaganda machine criticizes Putin the most about is what makes him a great leader.

An interesting perspective and yes he could have nationalised the industries had he wanted to.

There are many Russian products that freak out Washington such as the Su-57.

 

S400 and SU57 "freaks" out Washington.....sure.

The Isrealis fly right by the S400....and does the SU57 even exist and operational.

Vatniks seem to think everything of theirs freaks everyone out....LOL.

 

There are no S-400 in Syria. You're thinking of the S-300. Also the Israeli jets rarely go into Syria now- a-days because of the S-300. They send in drones. It doesn't matter anyway, you will find out soon enough what's going on. The Minsk Peace Treaty ended on Mar. 26 thanks to Ukraine.

 

No S400?....in Syria. Sure there aren't?




What doesn't matter??

Pulling crap outta your backside again Jenny?

 

Lets see ?? Oh I can see why democratically 'sponsored ' invasions are more expensive. Democracies actually have to pay their soldiers a living wage instead of conscripting them. Then when they actually start fighting they are equipped with modern weapons that are well maintained. Not forgetting of course that actually running a dictatorship is never expensive as running a democracy. How could it be when you can simply seize or extort via threats anything you need from your populace. Not that Russia or China would ever do that, other dictatorships but not them. That's why Senior party officials in both countries are so poor and have humble lifestyles they just stuggle by day to day on their official salaries.

And I agree you would never see Russia or China invading another country. Although I think the governments Hungary (then Czechoslovakia ) and Afghanistan might beg to differ. As would the former Tibetan Government and Vietnam. Just a tad.

 

Yea, we heard that they still are finding old T-34 tanks in Russianfarm houses and garages kinda like old Ford trucks in American garages

 

Latakia is where the Russian airbase is. I was referring to the S-300's that Putin gave to Assad after that fiasco the Israeli pilot pulled. Israel only flies its drones in areas where the Iranians are. But then again who am I to say, you're the forum genius.

That's the best one yet Jeannette.

​

 

Now stay calm, because I don't want to upset you, but the Soviet Union is not in Eurasia anymore. It left 30 years ago, and came here. But look, if you feel better thinking that it still exists there and not here, then please do so. I wouldn't want to disturb your peace of mind.

​

Dreamland, dreamland,
my very own serene land,
where I am free to only see
whatever pleases me - Jeannette

​

 

So none of the events I listed were directed from Moscow? And no-one in charge now has any direct historical connection to the government institutions of that era?

 

A diet of TV, John Wayne in particular,
and dreamed up threats in McCarthy's vernacular,
a need for compulsory enemy persists
thus the Soviet Union is still thought to exist - Thingamabob

 

Oh god! The 'Red Hoard' is upon us! Run for your lives!

 

Thingmabob. Russia has only produced about ten Su-57 air frames and has ordered a total of about seventy five with definitive delivery dates. And those it has aren't even fitted with the engine designed for it which is also still a 'work in progress' with no definitive delivery date.

India, Russia's long time customer for advanced weapons systems looked at the SU-57 and backed out of an agreement to buy. It still has no plans to do so. China might buy some if the new engine can ever be made to work. But IMO they won't do so until it does because hey, they've already reverse engineered the current engine from previous purchases and they'd have no interest in stealing the same design twice, something they've done with just about every major weapon system Russia has sold them. In any case they are also working on their own stealth fighters as well so the chances of big sales there are next to zero also.

Meanwhile the US has about 180 operational F-22s and more than 500 F-35s with some 3000 in total ordered by the US and its allies. The F-35 still has technical hurdles and maintenance issues to be resolved but these are slowly but steadily being addressed. The SU-57 isn't operational in one squadron yet.

So you tell me which Air Force is the one having the nightmares?

Again Russia simply can't afford to buy large numbers of modern, complex & expensive weapon systems anymore, its a mid tier economy these days not even one of the top 10.

 

Oh grow up. I was replying the 'America does all the invasions' comment previously by listing a few Russia and China happens to have been involved in historically. Point being neither side of that particular political divide gets to claim they have clean hands. No-where did I say anything about a 'Red Hoard'. In fact I think my posts make it it pretty clear I think the opposite. The Russian military today might just about manage 'Red' flash mob but that's about it. It simply can't project military power like it could in the past. Same for China, its military power is growing but it to faces demographic, geographic and economic constraints. Even the US struggles with power projection today.

 

I agree with you but you are off the point. The SU-57's potential is looming and (as you admit) its' major disadvantage is one of finances. Being America's "nightmare" is in knowing the SU-57 is a formidable foe just waiting to happen and the fact that the U.S. can only afford a couple of relaxing minutes. Anything more than an exhale or two and they will find themselves in a bunker with their seat belts pulled tightly.

 

The problem is how formidable and how soon? Recent Russian fighter designs have favored maneuverability over long range sensing and hitting power. The US with its lead in electronics has gone the opposite way. To date show downs between US made and Russian made jets haven't gone well. For the Russians. In part this may be because they were being flow by 2nd or 3rd tier nations with limited flying experience. But still? So the only way the SU-75 will be a threat is if it can get within range of its equally?? hard to detect opponents.

And even if it is 'on paper' a better plane than both US stealth jets what difference does it make? 75 aircraft simply won't cut it, ever. Those 75 planes would have to magically obtain a kill ration of 10:1 or more in every single engagement they ever flew just to break even again the US. The problem remains Russia cannot afford to remain competitive with the West across the entire modern spectrum of weapons systems. It can and probably will continue to hold its own in a few niche areas but for the rest it faces a nothing but a steady decline in its military capabilities for as long as it chooses to go it alone.

 

Lead the way and I'll follow.

If your motives were true then why bring up the USSR? I think you may be under the false impression that deeds transcend the whole of history. NEWS FLASH: The Soviet Union no longer exists. The U.S. does. ANOTHER FLASH: Vladmir Putin was a member of the KGB and Geo. Bush Sr. was also a member of the CIA just as I was once a non-commissioned officer in the Army but I am a civilian today. Do you follow me? Your insinuating comment/question ...

... indicates that you may not understand what this little dialogue is all about.

 

The SU-57 is ALREADY superior to the American fighter in at least 3 areas: Agility/manoeuvrability - altitude capabilities - weapons/arsenal payload/exchangeability.

This has already been discussed in financial terms.

"Chooses"? Is it your conviction that it "chooses" its financial situation?

 

On paper perhaps. On paper a tiger is dangerous animal. Point is you actually have to come face to face with one in the wild before that means anything. You keep missing the point, no matter how good it might be, if there are only ever going to be 75 of them in the 'wild' then its superiority over the thousands of 5th gen Western fighters already flying or on order is hardly relevant is it?

It chooses to engage or not engage with the West. Europe and the West would fall over themselves to invest in Russia if it had an open economy and functioning independent legal system. Neither are in the interests of Putin's backers who favor a closed economy where they hold all the cards and where they are not subject to the rule of law provided they operate with in political constraints imposed by the Government.

 

No, it is YOU who is missing the point from the very beginning and you insist on missing the point even now. The only thing you are saying is that you think the SU-57 is inferior to American air power. What does that have to do with the point? Read my words again > > >

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... and you think this is abnormal? Have you never looked at a map of NATO bases?

 

Below are some of the journalists who "started the anti Putin propaganda."
Putin ordered their murders.
I am sure they were all paying taxes at the time of their deaths.
Many Russians think Lenin (1.5 million dead) and Stalin (20 million dead)
are heroes - so it's no wonder they think Putin is legendary.


Domnikov (Novaya Gazeta), Anna Politkovskaya (Novaya Gazeta), Vagif Kochetkov (CJES), Paul Klebnikov, Vladimir Yatsina (CJES), Telman Alishayev (CJES). Photos, second row: Eduard Markevic (CJES), Aleksei Sidorov (CJES), Pavel Makeev (CJES), Yuri Shchekochikhin (CJES), Magomedzagid Varisov (CJES), Anastasiya Baburova (Novaya Gazeta), Maksim Maksimov (CJES), Magomed Yevloyev (CJES), Ivan Safronov (Kommersant).

 

Can we please have a map of the mass graves of people murdered by the Communists in
Russia, Eastern Europe, China and Indo China? Every dot must be 10,000 people or more.
Thank God for NATO.