Part 38 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

By eternal do you mean for an infinity?

 

Well it's seems very similar to you because you're not understanding it. Your observation is skewed due to your lack of understanding.

Here let me give you an analogy. During World War II we Americans alongside allies such as the British and others were fighting a war against Nazi Germany, Imperialist Japan and Fascist Italy.

We and our allies were the Good guys while those others were the BAD evil guys. Thank God we Americans and our allies defeated the BAD evil guys and won World War II, otherwise contemplate what this world would be today if those evil empires were in charge of everyone in the world today...not a very pleasant world it would be, far worse than one can imagine.

So I'm sure you had no problem with us Good guys (Americans and allies) winning World War II.

In contrast with what was going on during biblical times of the OT, God had to use the Israelites to fight against evil empires/nations (very similar to what we had to do in World War II).

One such evil nation was the Canaanites another was the Amalekites. The Canaan people were evil people and because of their sins & disobedience our righteous God of the Old Testament allowed the killings (punishments) of the Canaanites and the Amalekites. God had morally sufficient reasons for ordering the destruction of these nations and so you can't call it genocide or whatever you want to label it.

The Canaanite culture reveals its inherent moral wickedness, they were a brutal, aggressive people who engaged in bestiality, incest, and even child sacrifice. Deviant sexual acts were the norm.

The Canaanites' sin were so repellent that God said,

"Because the entire land has become defiled, I am punishing the people who live there. I will cause the land to vomit them out." Leviticus 18:25 NLT

It must be noted that God gave the Canaanite people more than sufficient time to repent of their evil ways, over 400 years (Genesis 15:13-16) They were aware of God's power and could have repented but they continued their rebellion against God until the bitter end.

We Read in Scripture:

13 Then the Lord said to Abram, “You can be sure that your descendants will be strangers in a foreign land, where they will be oppressed as slaves for 400 years. 14 But I will punish the nation that enslaves them, and in the end they will come away with great wealth. 15 (As for you, you will die in peace and be buried at a ripe old age.) 16 After four generations your descendants will return here to this land, for the sins of the Amorites do not yet warrant their destruction.” Genesis 15:13-16 NLT

So Alpha there are times when the Good must fight against the BAD. Remember we live in a sinful fallen world and mankind has always been plagued by the destructive power of sin.

God has given each and everyone of us the gift of free will and free will encompasses Good (righteousness) as well as BAD (evil).

 

I mean that life will not cease.

But to further flesh out the concept, eternal life is not only about an unimaginable period of time. It is, more importantly, about knowing God (and more than just intellectually). It's about having an intimate, close, personal relationship with God. That is something that can (and should) be experienced in the here and now.

 

I have a guess, God used to talk to man, but the stink of sin got intolerable for him, and they wouldn't listen anyway; then He'd pick certain men and communicate thru messengers, and nobody would listen to them or heed God's word for long, the HE did miracles to catch mankinds attention, but even that would be rapidly forgotten by most people, SOOOOOO He finally got it written down and Western man is well on it's way to ignoring those words too.

You see, God gave us freewill, which is necessary to love someone for something other than filling your food dish.

I don't think you posters give the Prince of the World enough credit for his work

efforts.

 

The Ezekiel passage is about the king of Tyre, in the Garden of Eden. It has nothing to do with Satan.

 

Hmm. That may make some sense, but not if he created this very creature that he finds so intolerable. That would be like hating your own art so much that you can't stand to look at it.

And why would he have to directly talk to us just to have us know what he wishes us to know? If he is all powerful then he isn't limited by written word, personal appearances, spoken word, etc. He could just make you know.

That he doesn't, tells me he doesn't wish it.

And the testing us part makes no sense to me at all if we don't know what we are being tested on. You can't reject something that you don't think exists. The mere existence of not just atheists, but anybody who believes differently than the God intents (Muslims, Jews, Budhists, whoever) seems to me to rebuff the idea that God can test us on following his word, since these people don't even know his word. They think its something else or they don't think it is.

And having everyone know the God exists and what the God's message is, would not violate free will, right? I think it would enable free will, because only then would people truly have a choice to follow or not follow what God directs.

 

Satan’s fall from heaven is symbolically described in Isaiah 14:12-14 and Ezekiel 28:12-18. While these two passages are referring specifically to the kings of Babylon and Tyre, they also reference the spiritual power behind those kings, namely, Satan. These passages describe why Satan fell, but they do not specifically say when the fall occurred. What we do know is this: the angels were created before the earth (Job 38:4-7). Satan fell before he tempted Adam and Eve in the Garden (Genesis 3:1-14). Satan’s fall, therefore, must have occurred somewhere after the time the angels were created and before he tempted Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. Whether Satan’s fall occurred hours, days, or years before he tempted Adam and Eve in the Garden, Scripture does not specifically say.

Click on link below to read entire article.

https://www.gotquestions.org/Satan-fall.html

 

As an intelligent educated adult of the 21st Century, why do you believe that grass and trees were created before the Sun and the Moon and all of the trillions of stars in the universe and that those stars will fall to the Earth?

 

This post should be reported .. and I might would were it not so humorous.

So because I stand up for the rights of gay people .. you figure that I am gay .. and am a sinner as such.. Nothing like opening with a false accusation in desperate attempt to demonize the messenger ..

almost foaming at the mouth - your rant continues claiming "no one is born gay" - a claim you can't possibly prove to be true -

then you equate a woman looking out into the world and finding a woman attractive to "bestiality - adultery - and pedophilia". .. and finish claiming no one is born atheist.

Are you having a bad day Mate ? how about "Let Ye who is without Sin - cast the first Stone" -

Who are you to Judge ?! - usurping the Position of the Logos - claiming to speak for God.

 

If you're going to report my post, to be fair make sure you include your post below where it clearly shows you were insinuating that I was gay. So you instigated the whole thing from the start.

 

Even angels can't tolerate the God character. Imagine being stuck with him forever.

 

The Jesus character was supposed to have been without sin so it was his duty and responsibility to cast the first stone.

 

Here gawd, after reading everything presented below it will thoroughly explain why Our Lord Savior Jesus Christ didn't cast the first stone. Let me first bring up the passage in Scripture regarding the woman caught in adultery.

We Read in Scripture:

A Woman Caught in Adultery

8 Jesus returned to the Mount of Olives, 2 but early the next morning he was back again at the Temple. A crowd soon gathered, and he sat down and taught them. 3 As he was speaking, the teachers of religious law and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in the act of adultery. They put her in front of the crowd.

4 “Teacher,” they said to Jesus, “this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 The law of Moses says to stone her. What do you say?”

6 They were trying to trap him into saying something they could use against him, but Jesus stooped down and wrote in the dust with his finger. 7 They kept demanding an answer, so he stood up again and said, “All right, but let the one who has never sinned throw the first stone!” 8 Then he stooped down again and wrote in the dust.

9 When the accusers heard this, they slipped away one by one, beginning with the oldest, until only Jesus was left in the middle of the crowd with the woman. 10 Then Jesus stood up again and said to the woman, “Where are your accusers? Didn’t even one of them condemn you?”

11 “No, Lord,” she said.

And Jesus said, “Neither do I. Go and sin no more.” John 8 NLT

Jesus’ statement “If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her” is found in John 8. Jesus was teaching in the temple when the scribes and Pharisees brought to Him a woman who had been caught in the act of adultery, and they asked Him if she should be stoned as required by the Law of Moses. However, they cared nothing about this woman; they were using her to trap Jesus. In their minds, if He told them to set the woman free, they could claim He did not hold to the Law of Moses. If He told them to stone her, they could claim He was not the Savior; and, if He said nothing, they could claim He lacked wisdom. Jesus did not answer immediately but stooped and wrote something on the ground, and they kept pressing Him. Finally, the Lord said, in essence, “Go ahead and stone her because that is what the Law requires. But the Law also requires that the first stone be thrown by a person who is sinless in connection with this charge” (John 8:6–7).

There is no doubt that this woman was guilty of a capital offense and that the Law required that she be stoned, but the Law also required that the guilty man be stoned as well (Deuteronomy 22:22), that witnesses be produced, and that a witness begin the execution. But the Jewish leaders came with venom against Jesus and were thwarted by their own single-minded hate. They did not produce the guilty man, and they were unwilling or unable to produce the required witnesses. We do not know what Jesus wrote, but, after He wrote a second time, the Jews left one by one, from the oldest to the youngest, without saying another word. Jesus then set the woman free with a warning to her to sin no more.

From this passage we learn that we do not accuse others unless we first thoroughly search our own hearts and minds to make certain that we are pure in every possible aspect (Matthew 7:3). Also, if we must admonish someone, we should do so as instructed in Scripture; we always look to God’s glory and never cause unnecessary division or harm (Matthew 18:15), but we do work to keep the church pure. Moreover, Jesus was the only sinless person in the temple scene, and, instead of condemning the woman, He looked ahead to His work on the cross and offered her life. Likewise, we should use every possible opportunity to forgive and to reach out with the gospel and the love of Christ, always remembering that we, too, are sinners in need of the Savior (Romans 3:23).

https://www.gotquestions.org/without-sin-cast-first-stone.html

 

Mitt, you first mistake is assuming that the story is about a woman who was caught committing a sexual act. In reality, she was caught worshiping a deity other than the Jewish one. That is also the biblical definition of adultery. Was she worshiping a Greek or a Roman god? Or was she worshiping the Jesus character? After all, he claimed to have been a deity who could give people eternal life.

So, when the Pharisees brought the woman before him if he had told them to stone her he would have admitted that he was a fraud and a liar about being a deity. If he had flatly told them to let the woman go he would have then admitted that he was breaking the Law of Moses by claiming to be a god and that would have been blasphemy worthy of his own immediate death, especially if the woman had been worshiping him. Therefore, he did what any person would have done in such a predicament. He punted. Remember, this was the guy who had told his groupies that they could command a mountain to jump into the sea and that it would obey. So, he certainly had the power to tell them to all go jump off a cliff like the pigs and they would have obeyed.

The bottom line: the Jesus character was all talk and no action. He should still be wiggling on the cross.

 

Spare me this silly navel gazing

 

Another joke of a post ... we are talking about Job .. Not Ezekiel and Isaiah .. neither of which even mention the Son's of God but regardless .. we are talking about Job .. and the nice Son and Father relationship the Tester and the Most High have.

Why are you so desperate to run from scripture you don't like ?

 

God's perspective of good/evil has never changed whether one looks at God of the OT or God of the NT...He is, has always been, will always be the same Almighty God The Creator, The Father, The Son, The Holy Spirit!

Scripture tells us that God does not change His mind and so it would be illogical to think that the perspective of good/evil in relation to God has changed. This view of yours is based on a misconception of God of the OT having differences from God of the NT. First a few quotes from scripture before I continue on.

We Read in Scripture:

19 God is not a man, so he does not lie. He is not human, so he does not change his mind. Has he ever spoken and failed to act? Has he ever promised and not carried it through? Numbers 23:19 NLT

6 “I am the Lord, and I do not change. That is why you descendants of Jacob are not already destroyed. Malachi 3:6 NLT

To continue on, again I repeat it's a misconception to view God as as being a different God when comparing the OT and the NT.
There are good reasons we read about God commanding different actions in different situations (personal admonitions vs national interests). When reading the Holy Bible you must first understand the context in which the individual passages are given.

When we look at OT passages such as Joshua 6:17 or Judges 20:43-48, one point we note is that the commands of God are addressed on a national level. Here God is instructing Israel as a forming nation. Christ's command to turn the other cheek and pray for those who persecute you are directed to individuals on how they should deal with other individuals who offend them.

So we must note that trying to draw a comparison between these passages is strained from the outset. They are addressed to two totally different audience types (a political government versus individuals) and two different sets of circumstances (establishing a new nation versus dealing with a personal wrong).

Different aspects of God's character are not contradictory. In Genesis 15:16, Abram first asks about possessing the land, God tells him that the time is not yet right "for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full." In other words, God was going to give the nations of Canaan additional time to repent and turn from their wicked ways. When they didn't, God chose to send Israel to bring His judgment upon them. (Note: He gave the nations of Canaan over 400 yrs. to repent from their wicked ways)

Although the punishments of God may appear to some as out of character with His mercifulness and love, it is not true that these are contradictory attributes. Justice is necessary to show love to the victims of evil. If God did not punish those who perpetrate evil, we would not only consider Him unrighteous but uncaring as well. When reading some of these isolated instances in the scripture, we are not privy to the extent of their actions and why God feels they should be judged, so we tend to think of the judgment as unfair. But God is God; He is in the position to judge His creation and because of that He doesn't need to justify His actions to us with an explanation why a nation deserves judgment.

Throughout the Bible, God is portrayed as not only loving and long-suffering, but also a righteous judge who will come to punish the unrepentant and the wicked. This is as true in the NT as in the OT. The Book of Revelation specifically speaks about God's judgment on the nations and His wholesale destruction of nations.
Similarly, the OT highlights instances where God reached out to sinning nations and gave them unusual grace. The Ninevites were extended a chance to repent in the book of Jonah, even though their deeds were wicked. So the character of God remains consistent throughout the Bible.

Although Jesus was God throughout the whole Bible He humbled Himself as a human.

As a human the God of the OT became a submissive human servant in the NT.

We Read in Scripture:

5 You must have the same attitude that Christ Jesus had. 6 Though he was God, he did not think of equality with God as something to cling to. 7 Instead, he gave up his divine privileges he took the humble position of a slave and was born as a human being. When he appeared in human form, 8 he humbled himself in obedience to God and died a criminal’s death on a cross. Philippians. 2:5-8 NLT

Our Lord Savior Jesus Christ said,
"For even the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve others and to give His life as a ransom for many." Mark 10:45 NLT

Yes, the God of the Old Testament is the same God of the New Testament!

 

How many Gods do you believe there are? Being a Christian I learned that there is only one true God, one entity, The Christian God, The Trinity, The Father, The Son, The Holy Spirit!

I thought you said you were a Christian? Why are you mentioning "God(s) of creation"? Who are these Gods I have never heard of?

 

You are mistaken - on many levels - but that is another story. It is not my perspective that is being referred to - nor yours - but the perspective of Abraham and the Ancient Israelites. who did not have a Trinity like ours - nor Jesus .. but they did have The Father - who had many Sons .. of which YHWH was one ... just like Jesus was a Son of the Father .. but different in that YHWH had two divine parents .. where Jesus only had one.

If you have not heard of these other Gods - then you have not been paying attention to the Scripture I have provided you - on many occasions - which suggests at once your character ..

Abraham - and the people of his time - the descendents of Shem - who were the Sumerians - all knew what "US" is referring to in the Creation story. Its just that you havn't figured it out yet - well .. you probably have figured it out - being a smart fellow .. but have yet progressed to grudging acceptance .. that I am your Master... muuaaaa ha ha ha haaaaaa .. Just kidding ..

But seriously . what about .. the "Sons of God" were "Sons of God" - is not sinking in ?

 

I understand gift, but it appears you don't understand. You made the claim that it seemed like God and satan were buddies and I told you no they weren't.

Even though satan still had access into heaven during the time of Job, he got booted out of heaven and sent down to earth. Those passages in scripture from Ezekiel and Isaiah depicts/describes satan's fall from heaven which was sometime before the disobedience of Adam & Eve in the Garden. Scripture doesn't say specifically when he got booted out of heaven but again it was sometime before the Garden story.

My whole point is that they were not friends/buddies as you seem to think even though satan still had access into heaven as depicted in the Book of Job. So do you concede my point or no?

 

Why should the Jesus character get a pass on following the rules?

https://thebricktestament.com/the_law/when_to_stone_your_children/dt21_18a.html 6 pictures

 

Wasn't the point of the discussion .. had no relevance .. added nothing .. go back and read

 

Dude - this is not about what I claim - this is about what is written in Job - how the relationship between the Most High and Jesus is depicted.

The Son's of God are visiting the Most High in Heaven. We are not told what for - perhaps it is his B-day. The Tester/advocate - (you call him Satan) is among them.

God speaks to Satan Directly - making light conversation - asking him how things are going - " where have you come from "

This Son of God tells the Most High - "To and Fro on Earth - walking up and down on it"

Is this not a friendly relationship thus far ? Obviously - at least at this point in time - Satan is still allowed into the Lords presence in Heaven.

What is difficult about this exchange to comprehend ?

.

OH ... so God and Satan were all good - even though this is way after the Garden of Eden incident ? - are you sure this is the same Son of God ?

You have not shown that Ezekiel and Isaiah state what you claim - and even if you could - you would not know if this was the Same Son of God as being referred to in Job .. but do feel free to attempt to prove this claim. Should be interesting.

You have contradicted yourself - in this post - as you agree that at one point - Satan and God were on good terms - as depicted in Job.

Just because Satan may have later been thrown our (a claim you have not substantiated) - does not change the fact that they were buddies at the time of Job .. which is long after time of Genesis.

Are you sure that you are not confusing one Son of God with another .. and actually .. the Serpent is not called a Son of God in Genesis.

Do you know who or what the Serpent is - according to near east belief ?

 

I agree that God's perspective has not changed .. from a general perspective - as God should not be fickle.

The God of the Bible is presented as very fickle - a flip flopping God with the most petty and nasty of human characteristics and emotions.

Your claim that it was Jesus commanding the murder of babies and fetuses - because of the sins of their parents - I disagree .. as this would make Jesus a fickle flip flopper.

Is this what you believe ? .. that Jesus is a fickle flip flopping genocidal maniac with the most petty and nasty of human characteristics and emotions ?

I sense some self deception going on here somewhere.

 

You must be in some kind of cult. Christians define cult as a religious group that denies one or more of the fundamentals of biblical truth. A cult holds views that are spurious and unorthodox. It claims to be part of a religion yet denies essential truths of that religion.

So what exactly do you call your cult?

Do you believe Jesus Christ is your Lord Savior?

Are you suggesting that the stories in the Holy Bible were created by man? Please explain if this is what you're saying. What stories are being created by man about God?

So you know all about God and the differences between what He has told you and man's concept of God.

So has God given you a personal revelation? Did He visit you and tell you the whole story that is different from what's written in the Scriptures of the Holy Bible?

Please help me out here, because I might not be quite following you in what you're actually trying to convey here.

Do you know something the rest of us don't know?