Pastor losing congregation over his pro-homosexual stand

i have never heard of gov trying to force a church to marry anyone, the gov is though telling some churches who they CAN NOT marry

when Interracial marriage was legalized, did the courts force church's to marry inter-racial couples, no, that has never been the goal, the goal is equal rights

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This will eventually happen…it is coming. The hate crimes laws and such will force pastors hands. How can a pastor refuse to marry someone our country says has the right to be married? Are you telling me gays could not bring up charges against a minister who refuses to do it? Come on….

In California there was a doctor…that denied doing invetro on a lesbian couple. They were fined and forced to comply. There are other doctors that could have done it…but oh no it had to be this one. And the gays won. A girl advertised for a roommate to share her apartment. A lesbian applied…she told her no…and the lesbian took her to court and won. A Christian store owner in California denied a cross-dresser a job…and eventually was forced to hire them. So don't tell me pastors will be protected…as Obama quickly stated after flip-flopping his position for votes.

Is this on the gay agenda? You better believe it is. Also on the ACLU's list as well. They desecrated a church in Lansing Michigan. They are not worried about Gods Wrath…they are not believers so what do they care?

Here are three different examples…that show where this is headed. Gays don't want people to just be tolerant…THEY WANT TOTAL ACCEPTANCE.

http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/2008/11/militant_homose.html

"Hate Crime laws are just the beginning. Once those are passed either federally or in all 50 states, begin campaign to eliminate homophobia entirely."

No free speech…no differing opinions…."Like "Don't Ask, Don't Tell," thoughts or words equal conduct. Homophobic inclinations alone, even without any actions, should be criminal and punishable to the full extent of the law."

"Sneak gay subtext into every book, movie, video game, TV show or other media that you have access to. Nothing like subliminal messaging to equate queerness with Godliness. (Don't forget, they catch the obvious ones like Spongebob and Tinky Winky, but they'll miss Bart or Freddie from Grand Theft Auto because they're too well hidden. Don't worry, their badly parented, unsupervised kids will know it when they see it)."

"If you're male, give Concerned Women for America a raison d'être by (*)(*)(*)(*)ing their husbands, sons and fathers. And of course, you dykes will know exactly what to do with their daughters. At least those that aren't already teaching us in our beds."

"Any homophobic persons, even former homophobes that have been rehabilitated, should be required to register using the same model as child molesters. There should be strict limitations pertaining to their proximity to any gay bars, clubs, gyms or institutions that are predominantly gay. Parents of gay children need to be aware of the dangers such individuals present, and should be aware of their presence in their neighborhoods."

http://annoy.com/features/doc.html?DocumentID=100722

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils in America/Sodomy/riot.htm

Today pastors might not be forced in the United STates…but its coming…and down the line…it will happen. And around the corner…group marriages.

 

Paranoid conspiracy theorizing from highly questionable sources.

Maybe try reading the actual law in order to learn what "hate crime" law actually does, and while you're at it, learn the difference between criminal cases that result in "charges", versus civil cases.

Churches can refuse to provide the religious rites of holy matrimony to any couple they deem unfit or incompatible with their doctrines. The First Amendment protects genuine religious practice such as the foregoing, in contrast to pseudo-religious rights being claimed by some individuals interacting with the general public as a shield for discriminatory practices.

There is no gay agenda; we didn't all meet up to vote on some course of action. Which isn't to say that activists have no agenda, but don't assume that they represent all gay people. As for the agenda of activists, the lies that anti-gay propagandists disseminate in order to drum up resentment and hatred is quite divorced from the reality.

People who invade churches to harass believers are 1) stupid, and 2) not operating with the approval of the broader gay community.

Acceptance of others' rights to their own beliefs or unbelief, and to live their lives accordingly, is a pre-requisite for tolerance. There is no expectation, at least on my part, that everyone will embrace my homosexuality with their approval. Not in the least, and I don't require anyone's approval anyway.

You are apparently not interested in the truth.

 

I think that is highly likely churchmouse. I have a friend, an artist, and she was sued just lately by a homo couple because she would not paint their portrait. She doesn't do portraits for money. She does them for friends and only when she wants to. but this couple thought they could take her to court and force her to do it. Maybe even for free. She won except that the judge, a lefty, made her do community service in a school. She hates children. THAT did not work out too well. HAHAHAHAH

 

They didnt invite the willing pawns of the gay agenda to the meeting.

 

There are no "pawns". Get real.

 

It will happen. They said abortion was only for the tough cases…abortion and rape and health of the mother…now look at it. They say that group marriage will never be legal…..the ACLU is working on that already. Why was this girl punished? LITTLE STEPS….BABY STEPS EVEN.


It will happen…and this is part of the gay agenda. They don't want tolerance…they want acceptance by all.

 

It will happen. They said abortion was only for the tough cases…abortion and rape and health of the mother…now look at it. They say that group marriage will never be legal…..the ACLU is working on that already. Why was this girl punished? LITTLE STEPS….BABY STEPS EVEN.


It will happen…and this is part of the gay agenda. They don't want tolerance…they want acceptance by all.

 

I guess this pastor missed the part where it said homosexuals need to be stoned to death for their behavior. While I certainly agree with the man in his opinion on accepting homosexuality he is obviously clueless about his own belief system.

 

there are instances of this happening in other countries. Just lately i read about some young woman in this country that was forced to take as a roommate a lesbian that she had previously said no to.

 

Yes, everyone wishes to be accepted. But the distinction between tolerance and acceptance is tricky. "Separate but equal" is an example of tolerance without acceptance, and it was FAR from equal. Abortion is a civil right, but exercising it is optional. There are nations where abortion is prohibited, and nations where it is mandatory. In the US, it's up to the individual and not the State. This is bad? You don't WANT individual liberty? Move to China.

As for group marriage, I see no particular reason why it should be prohibited, but I do see a couple of problems. First, it would be tough to administer. Entire new (and not obvious) bodies of law would have to be created to handle "partial divorce", for example, where one person opts out of the group. Custody, property distribution, etc. would all have to be worked out.

And second, group marriage seems "unnatural" in the sense that it's difficult for human nature to accommodate. Yes, there are places where one-man-many-women relationships are practiced, but jealousies can't be avoided, and the women are generally not members of these groups all that voluntarily. So while I don't think it would hurt to go ahead and legalize such groups, I don't see most of them as being very stable or very satisfying for their members.

 

You are just proliferating fear via your irrational animus. Homosexual people aren't out to take over the lives of others.

 

Not all Christians interpret and accept the Bible in exactly the same ways. Even scholars disagree upon what is to be believed. Those beliefs are indeed 'subjective'... and there are scores of Christian sects or denominations to support what I'm saying.

I believe that Christ and His overall character are worth holding to and emulating; not everything in the Bible is believable or of interest to me as a human being.

 

As far as I am concerned the majority of what the Bible states is evil and harmful to people. This is evidenced by the number of people who have used scripture to keep others down or to physically or emotionally harm them.

Plus is it really hard to interpret; if a man shall lie with another man he shall be stoned to death, as anything other than 'gay people should be killed for having sex with each other'? I respect people's right to believe whatever bullcrap they want to, but that does not mean I have to respect said bullcrap, especially when it is used to harm my friends and family.

And this pastor is not doing himself or anyone else any favors by pretending that the Bible says otherwise about homosexuality. All he is doing is lying to himself about his belief system. Once he comes to realize the entire religion is corrupt then he will truly have come to his senses.

 

Most people in America are raised to 'believe' in something biblical. And I would have to agree that many end up with a very toxic form of faith; still, not all do.

 

Yes many people are, doesn't mean I don't still think it's all a bunch of bullcrap. I don't care about the ones who use their faith for anything other than to benefit themselves and bring happiness to their own lives and those around them. The ones I care about are the ones who use it to justify harming my friends and family.

 

Of course, we all have our views of the value of religion. I don't see any one of them as having all the answers; that's for sure IMO. But I wouldn't dismiss Christianity or the others as "bull-crap" per se.

And that is a LOT of people; me included.

Yep. I worry about and guard against people like also. If someone or something is anti-gay... I don't likely tolerate it (not anymore).

 

you guys do realize that the pastor is pro-homo right? It appears that you just went off on a tangent in your bible bashing zeal.

 

I have written off the Abrahamic religions as nothing but bullcrap, at least for myself, I have not studied other religions enough to know anymore about them. I see no benefit in following any of the Abrahamic faiths. If others do though then great for them, I just hope they don't fall into the same mess most do when they use it to justify hurting the people I love.

Then it seems we agree strongly on the same things for the most part. I just don't see how that one passage in the Bible can be interpreted as anything more than murdering innocent people for an act some find gross or icky, but that ultimately does not harm them. Is there another way to interpret it in your view?

 

That was in the OT…Christ ushered in new law…and homosexuals should not be stoned.

 

Where did Yeshua ever say to get rid of the OT laws? Does that include the Ten Commandments as well?

Did he not say in Matthew 5:17-18, "17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."

And in 2 Timothy 3:16-17 "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."

I used the NIV Bible, feel free to tell me which version you use so that I may post the same quotes from the one you prefer.

 

Do you know why Jesus came? He came because people could not follow the law. He came as a bridge to the Father…without Him nothing else matters. And they did not have Jesus when Moses gave his people the law….there were over 600 laws concerning diet, clothing, worship etc.

First of all one the purposes of the law was to actually be a mirror. The law of God reflects the perfect righteousness of God. It actually tells us about who God is and it showcases human sinfulness. The law shows our weaknesses so that we will seek Christ. The law also is the restraint of evil. Will the law change our sinful hearts? No But the law can serve to protect the righteous from the unrighteous. The law reveals what is and what is not pleasing to God. BAck in OT days…the people could not do what God commanded…they needed to follow every law perfectly. No one could do that.

This website explains it better than I can.

http://godstenlaws.com/law-grace/new-covenant.html#.UA2dQo5VjL8

With Jesus' birth, life, death, and resurrection the Old Covenant was fulfilled and a new covenant was instituted.

“But our High Priest [Jesus Christ] has been given a ministry that is far superior to the ministry of those who serve under the old laws, for he is the one who guarantees for us a better covenant with God, based on better promises. If the first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no need for a second covenant to replace it. But God himself found fault with the old one when he said: “The day will come, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and Judah…” (Heb. 8:6-8 NLT)

Jesus accomplished in the new covenant what the old covenant was not adequate to do – defeat sin. The old covenant proved that sin was more powerful than the law. As soon as the law in the old covenant said, “Thou shalt not...” mankind could not resist temptation and the power of sin. Thus, Israel ultimately broke the covenant. Sin overpowered mankind, but Jesus overpowered sin. Israel was enslaved to sin, just as they had been enslaved to Egypt hundreds of years earlier. Just as Moses (who was given the written old covenant) was the savior for Israel from captivity in Egypt; now Jesus (who was mediator of new covenant) was the Savour for Israel (and all people) from captivity to sin.
When Jesus instituted the new covenant, he was in an upper room with His twelve disciples sharing the passover meal just before His crucifixion. He took the cup of wine and said,

“This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.” (Luke 22:20).

The new covenant was also sealed with the blood of a sacrifice. Jesus was the Lamb slain, and His blood was poured out for the sins of mankind. This was the end of the old covenant and the beginning of a new one.

The Ten Commandments were part of the old covenant. Jesus was not in conflict with the old covenant as the priests, scribes and pharasees of the day suggested. And lest people think that Jesus came to bash the law and prophets of the Old Testament, Jesus Himself stated that He did not come to destroy the law and the prophets. He came not to destroy, but to fulfill (Matt. 5:17).

Jesus fulfilled the law. He did not destroy it. Through His fulfillment we find salvation from our sins in Him alone. Jesus Christ fulfilled the old covenant and its laws when:

He lived a sinless life
Became the sacrifice for our sins
Was raised from the dead defeating sin and death

At the moment of Jesus' death on the cross, Matthew 27:51 states that the veil (separating the entrance to the holy of holies) of the Temple was ripped from top to bottom, symbolizing that with Jesus death there was no longer a need for the temple. Jesus Himself became the new temple. It was no longer necessary for the high priest to enter into the holy place, meet with God (at the mercy seat and ark of the covenant), and intercede to God for the sins of the people. Jesus fulfilled the purpose of the temple, and became the new door through which to come to God. People no longer had to come to the temple and offer sacrifices for the forgiveness of sins. Now they would come to the new Temple – Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins. Shortly after Jesus' ascension into heaven He sent the Holy Spirit to indwell all who would trust in Jesus Christ. In I Corinthians 6:19 we are told that our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit – the place in which He dwells.

So then, what happened to the law (Ten Commandments)? Where did they go? Were they suddenly made obsolete? Were they not important any more?

They were part of the old covenant which was transformed into the new covenant in Jesus Christ. The Ten Commandments are laws of great moral value and significance. They provide guidance for right living toward God and toward one another. They provide and excellent foundation for moral civilization. And Jesus Himself never destroyed the law. In fact, the Apostle Paul said that the “law is good...” (I Tim. 1:.

 

Flintc said,

No its not tricky. Should you have to accept my views as being valid and better than yours? And I certainly do not accept yours as being true. You are the one who should move…not me. Many things in our country are NOT left up to the individual. A woman can't sell her body for money. You can't sell fetal body parts…you can't even sell an organ if you wish. We don't have group marriage…you can't marry your dog….and you can't use most drugs…without a prescription. So don't tell me skippy that in America we live by the liberty law….we don't. Abortion was illegal far longer than it was legal. And so is gay marriage and sodomy. WE have laws that protect the masses. And all abortions are NOT legal. Late term abortions are not legal….and mills are being shut down all over the country where this takes place. Where is the liberty in that eh?

It would be utter chaos and who gets hurt….not the adults…the children. But you wouldn't care about that…as you don't with abortion that much is obvious. If its about liberty…then shouldn't just about anything but murder be allowed? What right do you have to tell someone they can't do something even if you see problems?

LMAO….so abortion is natural..killing a living human being…and a group OF ADULTS…who want to marry is not. LMAO You libs kill me…you pick and choose…and pick and choose according to your morality…or shall I say lack of morality. I don't see same sex marriage as stable and good for children. So there…..

 

It just blows my mind all the twisting and turning Christians will do to try and wriggle out of the Old Testament. Unbelievable.

Yet they still use it to back up their prejudices.

 

Not at all. But I am not going to discuss this in detail to someone who is not a believer and does not know the scriptures. I believe every word in the OT and respect it. But I also follow the NT and what Christ said. And he said…..backs up the OT but goes even further.

You can't back sin up when God says it is wrong. And the NT backs up the OT. All sex outside marriage is sin. So anyone heterosexual or homosexual or lesbian who has sex and is not married is in sin. Both testaments attest to this. Marriage is between one man and one woman…it was in the Garden….it was in Jesus time. He says a man should leave his mother and father….and become one with his wife. You will not find one couple of same sex in any marriage in the ENTIRE BIBLE.