Plane or No Plane?

Discussion in '9/11' started by Hunter Rose, Aug 15, 2011.

  1. Jango

    Jango New Member

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    Hang on, before you go off, I was saying 'grounded in reality', as in, something you could realistically imagine happening. We both know there is a stark difference in the quality of theories out there. A divide, if you will. Theories that could be real, and theories that can't be real. I think what's important to establish is that 9/11, the actual physical event of 9/11, could have been perpetrated by the government as easily as it was (allegedly for MIHOP) by al-Qaeda, if not infinitely easier. Furthermore, and to a different spectrum, it is just as possible that the government allowed the event to simply transpire. What is unreal are smoke generators being installed in the WTC and the Pentagon. Or mini-nukes. Directed-energy weapons. Israeli Art Students throwing mannequins out the windows. And there being no jumpers. Can we agree to that?

    I disliked some of your posts, Patriot, because God forbid, I am human, and have emotions, and can tell when someone is being a complete jerk and is disrespectful, arrogant, and what have you. Granted, I am not always the nicest, most pleasant individual either, but I try to adhere to the principal of "treating others the way I want to be treated." So yes, it was personal, because your words...the context and presentation of your prose, it upset me.
     
  2. Jango

    Jango New Member

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    So you can't see logic in any of them, Dave?

    Not one?

    Like the premise of "Let it happen on purpose."

    Unless I am mistaken, that means they knew it was going to happen, let it happen anyway, and on purpose.


    Why isn't this 'grounded in reality'? Governments do shady things to their people all the time. Why do you think the American government is safe from that type of behavior? Maybe if we had the Bush and Cheney testimony.
     
  3. Patriot911

    Patriot911 New Member Past Donor

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    I can imagine all kinds of things happening. It doesn't mean it happened, nor does the possibility of it happening make it a theory. It is FANTASY until you have evidence it happened that way, especially when there is so much evidence it happend the way you claim it didn't.

    In order to have a real theory, the theory should have some evidence that it could happen that way and no evidence it didn't happen that way. No truther theory matches that criteria.

    That is SO COMPLETELY false no matter how you cut it. How can it POSSIBLY be easier for the government to take over four planes and fly them into buildings and fake everything that happened on 9/11? With 19 hijackers who are committed to die, you can crash planes into buildings. How is the government going to get suicidal agents to fly the planes into the buildings? Last time I checked, Muslim terrorists willing to die for Allah aren't going to do so for the US. Then there are all the other "theories" out there about the explosives, the planes not actually hitting the buildings, the mannequins, the fake crash site in Shanksville.

    And then there is the coverup after the fact. THAT part can only be pulled off with every member of the investigative team being in on the conspiracy.

    So you're going to try and pretend all the people who stumbled upon the plan decided to spontaniously be in on the conspiracy? Do you have evidence of a sudden rash of FBI or CIA agents dying off as the conspirators kill off those who knew about the coming attack? Or are you going to try and pretend Bush and Cheney were personally intercepting communications to the hijackers? Life isn't nearly as simple as you seem to think it is. Reality becomes very complex very quickly, especially when you start looking at how quickly information propagates through an agency like the FBI or CIA.

    You do remember about being up in the air about some of the theories you now claim to be unreal, right? What makes these theories more "unreal" than the others? Neither set of theories have any evidence to make them "real". Both sets of theories has massive amounts of evidence that prove they didn't happen. What is the dividing line for you?

    Truthers ignoring the truth and using the three thousand victims of 9/11 as a platform to push their personal agendas offend me. So yes. Part of this is personal. When someone turns their nose up at evidence in order to propagate a lie, that is something I feel needs to be exposed in a way that people cannot mistake as anything else. Why is it such a bad thing to stand up for the truth? It is what truthers claim to be after, but it is the one thing they absolutely detest.
     
  4. Indofred

    Indofred Banned at Members Request

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    I'm happy to believe an aircraft hit both towers.
    I'm less happy to believe it was the stated aircraft.
    The flight logs, transponders and so on suggest things aren't as they seems.
    Pilots for 9/11 truth are suggesting it was a set up.
    Their evidence is worth a look.
     
  5. Hannibal

    Hannibal New Member

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    So post it.
     
  6. Indofred

    Indofred Banned at Members Request

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    [video=youtube;KhdppHwUJ9k]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhdppHwUJ9k&feature=player_embedded[/video]
     
  7. Jango

    Jango New Member

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    Good luck getting them to watch the whole thing.
     
  8. Patriot911

    Patriot911 New Member Past Donor

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    Seen it. Their claims are crap. If I can point out proven lies the Pilots for 9/11 continue to make, would it change the way you see Pilots for 9/11?
     
  9. Patriot911

    Patriot911 New Member Past Donor

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    Why should we waste another 41 minutes and 43 seconds watching the same old crap? If they actually had evidence, why can't you just post the evidence instead of a video where we would have to search for whatever evidence you claim is in there? Don't you think it is rude to make people waste their time?
     
  10. Hannibal

    Hannibal New Member

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    Ok, I watched the whole thing. (Did you, Jango?)
    Chock full of speculations.
    Now, could you post your evidence, please?
     
  11. DDave

    DDave New Member

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    How could the government have done it "infinitely easier"?

    You really have a low opinion of your elected leaders don't you. Not saying I fully trust all or any of them, but LIHOP is a bit much.

    Oh you mean like the Flight 77 simulation Pilots did where they didn't adjust the raw data for altitude? Shamefully misleading for a pilot, don't you think? Then they scrambled to come up with an explanation after they were busted?

    All the while they were using data supplied by the NTSB from the FDR recovered at the site where Pilots said no plane crashed? So how did they get data from the FDR if no plane crashed there?

    Oh right, the NTSB FAKED the data. Then of course we are asked to believe that they would fake data that doesn't 100% back up the official story?

    Truthers are really hilarious sometimes. They use the "data" to prove that the plane overflew the Pentagon. Well, if it overflew the Pentagon and did not crash, WHERE THE HELL DID THE DATA COME FROM??
     
  12. Jango

    Jango New Member

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    I did.
    Is it really speculation or is it evidence? Can you refute the point of the movie where it showed the four planes' radar blips intersecting each other?

    I ask because thinking ahead, there are conflicting reports as to the identity to the planes that hit the towers. You guys stress conformity. So let's play fair here.
     
  13. Jango

    Jango New Member

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    Yes. Didn't know you had seen it already. I watched it, there again, it was first time viewing.
     
  14. Hannibal

    Hannibal New Member

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    It is speculation. What 'conflicting reports'? Source, please.
     
  15. Jango

    Jango New Member

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    Can you refute the point of the movie where it showed the four planes' radar blips intersecting each other?

    But to answer your question:
    http://wsau.com/blogs/post/cconley/2012/jul/20/opinion-junk-reporting/
    Which you knew already. Firemen and other witnesses reported seeing things other than what is commonly described. Plenty of people have posted things in the past. Thanks for playing games though.
     
  16. l4zarus

    l4zarus Member

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    Is this the same Pilots for Truth website run by Robert Balsamo? He shouldn't be making conspiracy movies...he should be seeing a shrink:

    Rob Balsamo comes to JREF!!

    Rob Balsamo - Founder of Pilots For 9/11 Truth - Verified Current Pilot

    Topic started on 25-8-2010 @ 10:31 PM by TiffanyInLA
    OK folks, lets have all your rumors, insinuations, and facts of why you think Rob Balsamo is a nut job, along with the numerous aviation professionals he has attracted to place their names, in just 4 short years.


    His group's theories can't be great if he had to resort to virtual drag to promote them.:shock:

    I'll take Hannibal's word and pass on the video, thx.
     
  17. Jango

    Jango New Member

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    You're a free man, do as you please. Noted though.
     
  18. Jango

    Jango New Member

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    Hannibal,

    Can you refute the point of the movie where it showed the four planes' radar blips intersecting each other?
     
  19. Patriot911

    Patriot911 New Member Past Donor

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    Can I ask you an honest question, Jango? How many times do these sources have to be proven to be lying to you before you stop believing them?

    This one is easy to refute.

    [​IMG]
    This is the flight path for Flight 11. Notice it never goes south of NYC or much further west.

    [​IMG]
    Here is the flight path fro Flight 77. Notice it barely goes north of Dulles (Washington).

    Now, considering NYC is about 200 miles north east of Washington DC, how can the radar tracks possibly intersect?
     
  20. Jango

    Jango New Member

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    How about showing me radar screen footage like they did, not something anyone could draw. Bring your A game if you expect to convince anyone of anything.
     
  21. Jango

    Jango New Member

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    I'm still waiting Hannibal...
     
  22. Patriot911

    Patriot911 New Member Past Donor

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    Those drawings are from the NTSB and are available directly from the NTSB site. They are not something "anyone could draw". The jokers over at Pilots for 9/11 aren't using radar screen footage either. The actual radar traces have not been released.

    So again I ask you a very straight forward question. How many times does a site have to outright lie to you before you admit that the site is not credible? Do you have anything that can actually refute the flight paths from the NTSB?
     
  23. Patriot911

    Patriot911 New Member Past Donor

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    You had someone refute their claim in a very concrete way. You poo pooed it based on nothing more than you didn't like how the pictures were drawn. Hannibal is going to show you the same information. Flight 77 went due West, turned around and went due East. It didn't fly over two hundred miles out of the way to intersect the other planes. Hell, all one has to do is look at the timeline of when the planes took off to see Pilots for 9/11 is lying. But some people can't be shown the truth no matter how hard you try. They are blinded by their hate and their zeal to blame everything on their sworn enemies no matter how retarded it makes them look.
     
  24. DDave

    DDave New Member

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    But Pilots for 9/11 Truth are telling him what he wants to hear. There for it MUST be more credible. :roll:
     
  25. Patriot911

    Patriot911 New Member Past Donor

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    That is up to him. However, when one uses discredited sources they can't defend and tries to pretend they are credible, they only hurt their own credibility. Then again, all he has to do is look at the whole video. They show the track the planes took. The flight path for AA 11 and AA 77 in the video are exactly as shown in the illustrations done by the NTSB. So how can those flight paths intersect?

    Hey Jango. Here's more evidence. Flight 77 took off from Dulles at 8:20 am. It was hijacked sometime shortly after 8:50. Flight 11 crashed at 8:46 am. In other words, Flight 11 crashed before Flight 77 was even hijacked. This is easily verifiable evidence and doesn't involve your judgement on the professionalism of the pictures. So how do you explain that? Why would Flight 77 go the wrong direction to intercept Flight 11 while still under the pilot's control and enroute to the West coast?
     

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