Point of view. A look from the other side.

It's not actually 'how Russians do things' as opposed to how all 'intelligence agencies' (which usually do more than gather intelligence) do things from time to time.

There was a sort of unwritten agreement between the KGB and its opponents in MI6 and the CIA during the Cold War, that they didn't kill each other. Not because either side were nice guys, but because it made sense. For the same reason the Germans generally didn't kill American soldier prisoners-of-war during WWII ('generally', I said -- I know of the exceptions). Don't do it to us and we won't do it to you. Makes sense.

This didn't necessarily extend to defectors from within their own security services. If you were unfortunate enough to get caught and you were Russian, you had a grim fate. American defectors from the CIA faced a lot of harrassment, but not assassination: see Phillip Agee. And defectors from the Russian side were certainly in danger, but after the KGB agent who assassinated two prominent Ukrainian nationalists in exile defected to the West, the KGB's 'Thirteenth Department' supposedly scaled its activities way back. Or so one can gather from reading the on-line material which is available about this subject. [By the way, these assassinations, carried out in the late 1950s, were done with such skill that no one at the time thought the Russians were involved. In one case, the assassination was taken for a heart attack.... seems the Russians have regressed in their technique ... unless whoever did it wanted everyone to make a Russian connection.]

Therefore, it's entirely possible that the Russian intelligence services approached Mr Putin and said, "There's this traitor living in England. We can kill him, using a nerve agent developed here and which the English will quickly figure out was developed here (as opposed to using other methods which are untraceable, as when we assassinated Ukrainian nationalists in the 1950s), which will scare hell out of other potential defectors, and of course totally wreck your attempts to get Russia treated as just another Great Power."

It doesn't seem very likely that Putin, not evidently a stupid or impulsive man, would agree. But I could be wrong. However, since Soviet arsenals of all types were 'open for business' after the collapse of Communism, and ex-Soviet scientists were desperately seeking work with whoever could actually pay them a salary ... I'm not yet convinced.

I also keep in mind the now-forgotten brief war between India and Pakistan in 1999, the so-called 'Kargil War', for which there is very good evidence that it was initiated by generals in the Pakistani Army, to wreck a growing reconciliation between India and Pakistan, without the foreknowledge of the Pakistani Prime Minister. (The Wiki article I've linked to, by the way, does not give much of the rather extensive evidence for this.)

Putin is not an all-powerful totalitarian dictator. There may be forces within Russia, or indeed outside of it, who want to make it impossible for relations between Russia and the West to become closer to normal. And if you say, 'Oh, in that case, why doesn't Putin just say so, and help us find the real perpetrators?' ... well, this might not be possible for him, for various reasons. And ... do not forget national pride. If Edward Snowden were to die in mysterious circumstances, with circumstantial evidence pointing to the CIA, and the Russians gave the Americans '48 hours' to come up with an explanation ... what do you think the response would be?

Yes ... maybe Mr Putin did this. If so, it was a remarkably cack-handed thing to do, and totally contradicts everything he's been trying to do with respect to Russian-Western relations for the past several years.

Or maybe people, or a person, with no connection to the Russian state whatever did it. It's called a "false flag" operation in the trade. See the 'Lavon Affair', or, more generally, the Wiki article on such operations.

Again, I'm not the only one to think this. My previous link to another dissenting voice was to a hard Leftist --part of the tribe of hate-America types.So here's a link to a hard capitalist. The comments section for this article is also very interesting, including the post at the very end by someone with, or who claims, a PhD in toxicology.

 

Balancer: speaking of Russian Jazz, does the name 'Leonid Pereverzev' mean anything to you? He had a radio (TV?) program on Jazz in the 1960s. He was a wonderful man, and a friend of mine. More about him here.

 

Westerners have the privilege of choosing what they watch, read and hear. What you failed to explain was that we have a free press in the West and Russia does not. Russian propaganda is not terribly popular here. Sorry.

 

I don't understand your point. Are you saying that it's not true, as Balancer claims, that "In Russia, three quarters of the adult population actively use the Internet, including the Western media. Many foreign TV channels are broadcast in Russia, both in English and Russian. Many foreign publications and news are translated into Russian. Somewhere here, too, there are distortions, but the information is available."? That a Russian who wants to hear the 'Western' point of view cannot do so?

If that's what you're claiming, then I think you are mistaken. I have friends in Russia -- very liberal people who are definitely NOT pro-Putin -- and they have no difficulty accessing the internet and reading anything they want to. However, they ARE Russians, they love their country, and, JUST LIKE AMERICANS, they do not automatically assume their government is guilty of everything its foreign opponents claim it's guilty of.

It IS true that the press is much more 'free' in the US than in Russia, and that a free press is a good thing.

But remember that the Russian situation is actually the norm in most of the world: Yes, the government is 'authoritarian' and exerts strong influence, if not outright direct control, over the mainstream media. This is not a good thing, but ... it's very common. Go to Singapore -- a strong American ally, often praised in the American and British press -- and read the main newspaper there, The Straits Times. Try to find any serious criticism of the Peoples Action Party, which has ruled Singapore for about sixty years. And then ask what happens to people who make serious criticisms of the government. Or just read this, and then ask yourself: why is authoritarian Russia 'not popular' in the West, but the same attitude is not taken towards authoritarian Singapore? (I won't mention, except in passing, the democratically-elected Prime Minister of Iran, overthrown with the direct intervention of the CIA and replaced with an absolute dictator, or the American-supported overthrow of the democratically-elected President of Chile, replaced by a military dictator -- with the end of anything like a 'free press' in both of those countries. ... because as an American reader of the American free press, I'll bet you know nothing about those events.)

Now, believe me, I'd like nothing better than to see, eventually, complete liberal democracy, the rule of law, total freedom for the press, etc. emerge everywhere, including in Russia and Singapore. But that will be harder to achieve, if the people running these countries can plausibly point to outside threats. Which is why it's in OUR interests to not to unnecessarily

In any case, I'll bet you dollars to donuts that your average educated Russian knows ten times as much about the US, as the average educated American knows about Russia.

 

Crosspost from http://www.politicalforum.com/index...pread-fraud-continues.528772/#post-1068834183

I have repeatedly written that the more pressure on Russia, the higher will be the popularity of Putin. But now I was surprised by the result myself. Not official figures, but a huge turnout of people wishing to vote for Putin. Almost all of my friends and relatives went to vote, even those who did not do it in life. And almost all - for Putin My wife has never before gone to the polls. Yesterday - went. He says: "The Westerners' stupid attacks on Russia have reached Russia, we must go, or suddenly, if we do not all go, Putin will lose!"

And on the growth of Putin's rating, of course, the appeals of the opposition to boycott the elections influenced. Some of those who voted against Putin simply did not come to the polls. It so happened that the opposition did not come, but many of those who did not go to the polls never before came to vote for Putin. The turnout was huge. The polling stations of the crowd, the queue. Everyone's mood is festive, people are cheerful. Evening in the yard someone even launched fireworks

...

The funny thing is that the main rivals of Putin are Grudinin and Zhirinovsky. They are formally opposition to Putin, but they are also very illiberal and pro-Russian politicians. It turns out that 94% of the population voted for anti-liberal politicians in Russia.

 

In the West, people read and watch only Western media. In Russia, people watch AND the Russian media, AND Western So who has wider choice?

 

If our "Western Media" was in as much short supply and as shitty as yours, we'd probably have to look beyond what we have to get anything good, media-wise.

You should be on your knees thanking us for making up for your regions shortcomings.

 

That is why in Russia the West is increasingly considered as a possible partner. Russians do not like to crawl on their knees. And you need only such admirers.

 

I don't think all Russians are drinking vodka instead of tea. I don't think Russians want to eat babies, etc. I think Russians are run by a very corrupt man who has somehow manages to remain the effective head of state for nearly two decades, perhaps because his enemies conveniently die in suspicious circumstances, and his political opponents are conveniently disqualified from running against him.

There's nothing wrong with Russian people, per se. But your country is run by an evil man.

 

Think of it as a law firm business partnership.

We'll call this one U.S., UK and Germany. (There are others as well.)

It is US that allows YOU to be OUR partner.

Not the other way around.

 

You constantly do not notice the fact that the overwhelming majority of Russians support this evil person Voluntarily and with a wonderful awareness of the situation. Therefore, considering that this person is evil, you can not help thinking that the Russians support evil Well, or that the Russians are incredibly stupid, since they do not understand anything at the beginning of the XXI century, having the broadest access to information from the West.

 

Silly arrogance. But you do not even understand this.

 

It's not arrogance.

We are just exceptional people. (Not including the lib/prog/dems, that is.)

 

History shows that peoples with such self-conceit do not live long. You are doomed.

 

I would say modern-day Russians are more like the germans who followed hitler.

 

That could actually be perceived as a threat coming from a Russian. You people are known to murder those with whom you disagree.

 

The Germans did not have direct contact with the West or Russia We have direct contact with the USA or Europe. The Germans did not have western news channels on TV. We have. So the comparison is incorrect.

 

Can you give examples?

 

I gotta wonder, are russians stupid? The entire western world seems to agree that the russian government was involved with a poison gas attack in a civilian area of the UK.

"Oh no no," the russians say. "It was not us, comrade. Your western media is lie to you. Mother russia had no motive to kill that dirty traitor. It was probably the jews!!"

Wake up you nit wits. Your media is controlled by your government. Your current head of state has been head of state for nearly 20 years. All of his political rivals conveniently disappear. Do you think it is possible that you people are being manipulated? Good lord.

 

The Western world repeats unproven allegations that have no meaning. You believe in myths and propaganda. We, unlike you, believe in facts and evidence. Do you think that you are right? Prove it.

 

Here are 10 critics of Vladimir Putin who died violently or in suspicious ways

Here’s a list of Putin critics who've ended up dead

And let's not forget the attempted murder on the man in the UK the other week.

"Oh no no, Comrade! Those are all coincidences."



You need to wake up, sir.

 

Why is the UK accusing Russia of launching a nerve agent attack on Sergei Skripal in Salisbury, and what is the evidence?

The evidence is all right there. Please explain how this evidence does not point to russia.

 

http://lasvegas.cbslocal.com/2016/0...ociates-whove-died-mysteriously-check-it-out/

...

Do you think that people can not die on their own? Putin has millions of critics around the world. They are not immortal. Thousands of them die. It is easy to find among them suspicious deaths and inflate from them another unproven charge. And the Western philistine blindly believes everything he is told.

 

I do not know. Ask Britain.

Britain has no proof of Russia's guilt. Britain has only the opinion that Russia is guilty. Nothing is confirmed. And only blind kittens believe in such accusations.

 

my god sir you are completely brainwashed. Nemtsov, one of Putin's biggest critics, was gunned down in the streets of Moscow. Putin assumed personal control of the investigation, which has gone nowhere. And another political rival of Putin's would have run against him this year except he was conveniently convicted of a crime, which barred him from running.

You would have to be a complete idiot to see nothing but coincidence here.