Poll: French leave EU

Discussion in 'Western Europe' started by Ole Ole, Mar 24, 2017.

?

France leave and Germany become big power EU ?

Poll closed Apr 8, 2017.
  1. Yes

    6 vote(s)
    42.9%
  2. No

    8 vote(s)
    57.1%
  1. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It will also drop drastically when the EU crashes and burns, which it most surely will - and soon! I think the common currency (and yet it seemed such a good idea at the time. No it didn't, it was a bloody daft idea! [​IMG] ) will be the first thing to go south, followed by social unrest as a consequence in all member states. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but it was never going to work. I always said it wouldn't. :cool:
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2017
  2. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You seem to have a predilection for mentioning male body parts?

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2017
  3. MVictorP

    MVictorP Well-Known Member

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    There's no "maybe" options.

    And what if Japan joins the EU ???
     
  4. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    WISHFUL THINKING

    All of it, your post.

    lower cost production in eastern Europe. (France is producing its cheaper cars in Morocco.)

    If Ikea can produce in Poland, then so can the rest of Europe find adequate and
    German exports to the EU are higher-value, and because of this special condition are unlikely to be terribly damaged by import taxation.

    That will change. No nation can dismiss a trade disadvantage due to comparative exchange rates. They were highly variable before the UK entered the EU, and that factor will work again against UK trade. It is only a question of time.

    The UK started the "hardball game" with Brexit. Not the EU.

    As I've written elsewhere - the UK is only 7.5% of the total EU population. The rest of the EU's market-economy can get along very well without the UK, whereas competing with the UK globally has never presented an insurmountable problem to the rest of the EU.

    France, Germany, Italy, etc., proved that a long, long time ago ...
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2017
  5. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Fair enough. I was not thinking about trade but the social consequences.
     
  6. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    The EU started the game of "Hardball" with the UK when it bribed our politicians to vote against the representation of it's electorate and join the EU.

    This is an act of war. Currently the UK are still treating this as softball.
    That may change.

    If you want to see us do hardball, open your history book and turn to the pages marked 20th century.

    Exchange rates ebb and flow. When over valued they reduce, when under valued they inflate. How much trade we are doing with who and for what profit is subject to constant fluctuation.

    Some times we will be advantaged by low currency value other times by high.
    Most times we will be advantaged and disadvantaged at the same time as our economy is diverse.



    The UK maybe only 7.5% of the EU in population, but in spending power it is closer to 40%.
    7.5% of the population buy 40% of it's exports.
    No foreign market is more important to their members wealth than ours.

    I might have that 40% figure wrong, but you get my point I hope.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2017
  7. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    Free trade deals with the common wealth please. Let us sell cars to those without the ability to make them for themselves in exchange for goods and services. So lets drop tariffs to the Carribean. Sell them some cheaper cars. Same for NZ.

    Tariffs with Germany and France and Italy and Spain and Czechland and Romania and Poland etc on cars? Go for it.
    Let British people buy more British cars too.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2017
  8. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If they show any signs of bullying or effing us about, I sure as hell won't be replacing my present German-manufactured car with the same brand. Think I might go for Honda.
     
  9. Latherty

    Latherty Well-Known Member

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    Germany would still lose out considerably from the loss of exports to the UK. Sounds like you want to cut off your nose to spite your face. That kind of attitude is a reason to run the hell away from EU. It is simply not commercially minded.
    I appreciate your confidence in the pound, but I prefer a weaker currency all the same, Thanks.
    I wouldn't agree. Cameron tried in earnest to re-negotiate prior to the Referendum. Its like we went to couples counselling and the EU said, "talk to the hand". Divorce was just a natural consequence. There is no need to be so bitter about it.
    That would actually suit our interests very well and I wish you the best.
     
  10. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    I went Lexus and never looked back.

    No complaints with any of my German cars, but my Lexus is the best car I've owned yet. Politics didn't come into that decision.
    A Nissan from Scotland would do. A little 4x4 could be most useful to me.
     
  11. Latherty

    Latherty Well-Known Member

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    Fantastic cars, Hondas. Toyota are also extremely well made, often underrated here for some reason.

    Here is the reliability list of brands, Japanese and Korea all most reliable, EU all most un-reliable. We are made to charge tariffs on Asian cars but not on EU cars.

    upload_2017-3-31_12-34-14.png

    This article also had the BMW 3 series as the 3rd most unreliable car. http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-2186477/Top-reliable-reliable-cars.html
     
  12. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    I switched from Merc to Lexus because the current Merc models (at the time)weren't reliable like the old ones used to be.....


    I like a strong pound for when buying foreign stuff, and weak pound to attract foreigners to me.
    So if I want to emigrate....gief strong pound.
    If I want to invest in foreign companies...gief strong pound.

    So when buying abroad I want strong.
    But, having bought abroad, my share are paid in $. Built me new house in $.
    I now want a weak pound. So my dividend cheques from my investment are larger and the value of my holiday house larger when I sell it.

    Different people will be advantaged differently by strong and weak pounds depending on their livelihoods and what stage of their life they are in.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2017
  13. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No, that's not my habit.

    You don't understand some key fundamentals of export markets. The higher the cost of the product does not necessarily affect its consumption. People that buy BMWs really don't care about the cost - they want to be seen in a Beemer. (More often than not, that particular kind of item is written-off as a corporate expense.)

    Thusly, high-end cost products/services are less impacted by raising import duties.

    Btw, that is NOT the case for Ford exporting to the EU ...
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2017
  14. Montegriffo

    Montegriffo Well-Known Member

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    Look, I have been debating the ins and outs of EU membership for years but I'm not under the illusion that everyone is as interested in politics as I am. I encounter ignorance on both sides of the debate on a daily basis.
    You may isolate yourself in a bubble of intellects who have a good understanding of the consequences but I live in the real world. I woke up shouting at the radio the other day at a man who was arguing that we had been trading with Europe since Roman times a thousand years ago, do you really think that man had a full understanding of all the arguments? Same with all the people who couldn't understand why we were still in Europe the day after the referendum.
    Your constant talk of division and ''we won, suck it up'' is not the way forward.......
     
  15. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    Other people make high end products too.
    Lexus, Bentley, Rolls Royce. Jaguar. Range Rover. Cadillac. Lincoln.
    (BMW doesn't stand out. Everyone and his dog has one).

    Ford doesn't export so much to the EU. It manufacturers inside the EU.
     
  16. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Emotional thinking on your part, and hardly a cogent reply.

    Moving right along ...
     
  17. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    Not for you maybe, but the way forward for you is to take me backwards to a place I'm not willing to be. So either you suck it up or I do, and since there is more of me here than there is of you, in the words of Dr Spock, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
    Pick another fight. This one you lost. Re-fight it, re-lose it.



    No one understands all the consequences and ramifications of either Brexit or EU membership. But all of us better understand the consequences to ourselves, than any other alive does.
    Each one of us is best positioned of all to correctly judge how this will affect ourselves.

    So those people who don't understand it all, you are one of them too. We all are. Respect that and you will understand why we have the vote.
    We might not be able to understand each and every facet of the bigger picture, but we are all intimately knowledgeable about our own little parts in that picture.

    So we asked all the people to make judgements that only they personally had any expertise in, to speak for themselves.
    And it turned out that some faux omniscient idea of the bigger picture sucked and wasn't accurately representing it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2017
  18. Latherty

    Latherty Well-Known Member

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    Its difficult to think how we might replace EU for export of cars. There is large, quality manufacturing in Central America and in Asia, so its difficult to see how we might overcome transport costs disadvantage. Branded luxury market maybe, but that's not huge.

    I think we will be OK because its likely that a deal will be made in that sector. What EU will be trying to do is not only have a tariff-free access to the UK, but somehow ensure we maintain tariffs against Asia. If we dropped tariffs on Asia, EU couldn't compete on either price or quality. But that would probably decimate our own industry as well so I think everyone is on the same page on this. Probably why Nissan went ahead.
     
  19. Latherty

    Latherty Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Dr Cerebus.
     
  20. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Cadillac and Lincoln do not sell in Europe. All the rest do.

    They are high-end items that are unlikely to suffer the higher cost. It is the Fords and Opels* made in the UK that will take the hit ...

    *Different name in the UK, "Vauxhall" I think. Moreover, Peugeot (that bought Opel) will likely close the Opel plants and continue producing in France the higher-end of the line.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2017
  21. Latherty

    Latherty Well-Known Member

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    Yes that was shameful to watch. I'm glad he persevered. I don't agree with his policies but the behaviour of the Labour establishment in trying to oust him was appalling, downright slanderous.

    We have opt outs on most. I don't know if you've noticed but you just have a check-box to tick saying you waive this right or that right. As I said earlier, within the EU our only form of protest has become disengagement and non-cooperation. Its holding both sides back.
    That is certainly something to be concerned about. However, the exports to the rUK is much larger than to the EU, and if the EU puts tariffs on us and you leave the UK, you will actually be worse off. It may be in Scotland's interest that the UK stays in the EU, but that is not happening, so Scotland's interest is best served staying in the UK as it leaves the EU, as the lesser of two "evils".
    Have a great day!
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2017
  22. Montegriffo

    Montegriffo Well-Known Member

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    How on Earth do you think adding to the already spiralling costs of the NHS is going to save it. You are arguing against yourself here. More training and higher wages will kill the NHS and send us down the route of private medical insurance and unaffordable insurance for people with pre-existing conditions. Just look at the US system of healthcare if you think that is desirable.
     
  23. Latherty

    Latherty Well-Known Member

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    Yes the US are especially bad at making high-end cars. That and airlines. They just can't seem to get those things right.
     
  24. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    China is an obvious target. As is India. To promote our cars with sympathetic economies we remove tariffs on them.
    No guarantee's people will buy them if they are more competitively priced of course. But advantage is advantage.

    Some goods to and from the EU will be tariff free.
    Those that we deem advantageous us to be so.

    Currently other people, who are not us, decide that for us. And not being us, they don't care so much about us or know so much about us. And having a larger bureaucracy makes for the tariff changes to be less responsive to the current circumstances. Less effective a tool.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2017
  25. Montegriffo

    Montegriffo Well-Known Member

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    Look your talk of many and few is dishonest. 52% v 48% is not a decisive decision.
    If it had been this close and your side had lost would you just bend over and take it without complaining?
    No, you would be screaming about the rights of your half of the country.
     

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