PREPPING ... who was already doing it?

If you live in a region of the country were blizzards or tornados or earthquakes or floods are a common occurrence, then "prepping" is as natural as putting on your shoes. It's the yahoos who are not in any natural danger who carry on as if they're in a movie version of some sci-fi doomsday scenario that I scoff at. Like a broken clock, they (or their descendants) will one day be right...but I wouldn't hold my breath as some have for 40 years now.

 

Interesting. Where my wife and I come from people just call it "living". Our parents and grand parents just lived prepared and so do we. In March, when our governor announced shut down in three days I made a quick trip to the grocery store for a few last minute items (which we could have lived without) and my wife and I didn't go anywhere for four months. We still have enough food and supplies for several months. Just how we live miles from town. As for participating in "society's functions" we always have.

 

I have fish tanks..... mentioned before.... and I am thinking that water may have a great potential for protein production. Most fish can be raised at a pound per 10 gallons of water. But that is pretty intense. I am not stocking that heavily in case of power outages and such. It also makes me wonder about profit per square foot would compare to something like cattle. This is just a hobby with me but one season of wild caught sunfish looks pretty good. I may have a hybrid or two.... who knows?

 

That tank water makes for an awesome fertilizer for irrigation.

 

LOL, bless you.

Every one person who becomes self-reliant, is doing more for the betterment of society than a dozen who do nothing but bleat (while personally doing nothing to detach themselves from the umbilicus). You want change? It starts with you. Get your damned hands dirty like you mean it, instead of being bitter when others show you up.

In the meantime, you have not the tiniest clue of what I do in terms of agitating for change. I'll wager that over my adult lifetime of 'communism' .. both lived and political, your 'efforts' would look like the strain an aristocrat endures when his third footman calls in sick.

 

Preach it sister! My footman called in sick about three years ago and I had him hanged. The staff has been quite healthy ever since.

 

It can be used for most anything. I use bog plants to remove nitrate.

 

Oh gosh .. that must have been AWFUL. How ever did you dress that morning?

 

I still don't think I will ever become self sufficient. But I could keep as much protein around as possible. A good sized bull calf will go about 650 pounds. That means he needs over 9,000 pounds of biomass to acheave. With winter hay... store bought... one calf on my ground bought late winter or early spring might work. Either feed up to 650 and sell or keep till 900 or 1,000 and butcher. Have to fix livestock trailer. Now fish. Feed conversation 4 to 1... They say. One pound of fish per 10 gallons of water. A 12x12x3 foot pond could hold 3000 gallons of water and 300 pounds of fish. MAX. Some of my ground is rock and won't even grow grass.

 

You're describing basic life in rural areas of the country....places where a tough winter or summer floods or droughts can wreak havoc. My grandparent's had some farm land, pretty much did the same as you. The "survivalists" and "preppers" I'm talking about went whole hog...."secret redoubts" stocked with guns and ammo, sophisticated wireless scanners/communication devices, water and freeze dried food, bio-hazard suits, gold and silver stock for currency & trade, etc., etc. Many were city dwellers who kept apt watch of various media platforms to catch the wave, so to speak. You've got to wonder if they could keep that up for 40 years.

 

Now that you've got that out of your system, here's how I responded to another http://www.politicalforum.com/index...lready-doing-it.569739/page-5#post-1072005982

You're not "self reliant" as you think...check the stamps on the equipment and clothes you've prepped up...I'll wager dollars to donuts YOU DIDN'T BUILD IT OR MAKE THEM FROM SCRATCH. Also, unless you grow ALL your own food and NEVER use a doctor or dentist, your "self reliance" is tenuous at best.

Self reliance does not equate with separation and "every man for themselves" attitude that was prevalent during the survivalist days. That track doesn't do a damned thing for society...but it's great retail for outdoor equipment shops.

I've got nothing against self reliance....I just scoff at folk who think they're better than everyone else because of the stuff they do like I described to the other poster. If you live in one of those communes or communities, more power to ya. But if your a hardcore "survivalist" or "prepper" my question stands valid.

 

It's much easier than most people realise. If you keep it to as much root stock as possible (for bulk and carbs) .. potatoes, beets, carrots, parsnips, etc .. then cover your remaining spaces in leafy greens/tomatoes/peppers/cucumbers/herbs, you've got everything you need. You already have protein covered, and for many of us protein is the hard part! We do eggs, but no actual meat or fish. We still have to buy in animal protein, or fish for it. I would LOVE to raise fish at home .. and consider that the golden ticket in many ways. Set for life, as it were.

 

There isn't a jot of difference. Whether it's one man for himself, or 12 working in collective - if they're all self-reliant and not burdening the system they're way ahead of the dependent bleater. Every one of them is ensuring they put as little burden on the system as possible, and at the same time secure the materials of survival for the next generation via land/water/skills etc. Compare that to the urban dependent (someone who rents, lives in a city, and buys everything they need to survive .. leaving nothing for the next generation).

You can scoff, but you'll just look silly.

PS: Self-reliance isn't about not going to doctors (though I did laugh at that), it's about not burdening OR relying on the capitalist system that you bleaters so love. It's about interfacing with it in a buy/sell capacity as little as possible, and having the tools for survival no matter what the economy is doing. When you are not dependent on the purchase of every last thing you need to stay alive, you have a degree of self-reliance that urban dependents can only dream of. You are also far FAR less likely to ever become a burden on the state .. and here's where you and I differ. I have very strong moral objection to the wilful destruction of one's ability to survive (by failing to buy property, by spending all my money on 'fun', by become fat or unfit, or a smoker, or an addict, or a gambler, or anyone of a thousand bad choices people make knowing it could lead them to welfare), because that is abuse of a system designed to help the genuinely needy.

 

With produce like tomatoes and stuff you also have storage concerns. I would also consider cost. I have a garden and 260 days frost free. I don't do eggs right now because of varmints but will buy chicks next season. I have to build a more secure place for them. Always something to do. It sometimes seems more expensive to grow stuff as to buy it. I am just gonna do broccoli for my fall garden. Will plant a lot of legumes for summer. Easy to care for and store. I plant a lot of green beans and southern peas.

 

For sure. Tomatoes and all the soft stuff is daily picking/eating. And yes, it can be expensive to set up a productive vegetable garden .. if you're looking for something picturesque and/or high tech. There are ways to do it for little to nil, but these involve more labor .. and preparedness to have a space that won't look like it was built by a landscape designer. EG we use salvaged materials to build raised beds, fences, shade houses etc, and recycle our pest nets and so forth. That means nothing matches, and everything looks a little 'well-loved'. Another big ticket item that many people purchase without thinking, is soil. We've never done that, preferring to make our own (if you have enough trees and other sources of green waste, composting is your best friend). We also have rainwater collection tanks - put in many years ago and long since paid for themselves - so don't pay for water either. We hand water, rather than use complex and expensive automated systems. Planting from seed is also important if you want to save money. Seedlings are massively overpriced. Upshot, it will only be cheaper than the greengrocer if you do it as per the above. If you try to do the fancy, automated, urban farmer thing with bought soil and matching raised beds etc, it will be an expensive hobby .. but probably still worth doing for the organic food and the ability to feed yourself in an emergency. Or even when you simply can't be a$$ed running to the supermarket to pick up something for dinner. It's a good feeling to have all you need to make a meal just sitting there waiting for you - fresh and clean.

Not sure how your climate is with fruit and nut trees, but I reckon they're essential. We see anywhere from a handful frosts in a winter, to virtually daily. We're below snowline by about 300 metres, and that seems to be a sweet spot. We can produce frost-dependent varieties of both fruit and vegetables, AND your conventional stuff without glasshouse.

 

My vegetable garden has had many truckloads of manure and compost. I grow pretty watermelons. But right now my garden is goat pasture. 2 years back I covered the whole thing in wood chips. My next garden will be done with cardboard and little weeding. Too old to work in the southern heat. Now days I just plant and pick. Peach trees and pecans..... Muscadine grapes. Too much work.

 

I also put many loads of pine straw in my garden. The soil is just now becoming that good, sticky , black stuff. The best compost is free , and a lot of it. Those big rolls of hay can be great soil as it rots. Great for those long carrots.

 

No dig gardens are fantastic. We have quite a few beds built that way. Cardboard, then layers of whatever is handy. Old straw, compost, leaf litter, etc. Great for potatoes, as long as you can keep layering up on top as they grow.

 

All good ideas. I've seen people plant directly into hay bales, and it seems to work well. As you say, any deep growing root crop loves that kind of thing. Parsnips even more so than carrots .. assuming you can get them to germinate (notoriously difficult!).

 

Never done parsnips. But used white glue and paper towels for carrots. I glue the carrot seeds one by one to the paper towel and let dry. This is usually done on the kitchen table. Then I place the paper towel on the ground and cover.... Then keep moist.

 

Good idea! The problem with parsnips is that seed has a very high attrition rate - even the best quality seed. That's why parsnips are so darned expensive to buy from greengrocer. It's a bummer for parsnip lovers - myself included.

 

Carrots aren't easy here. It gets hot and dry. Tomatoes are early season. And droughts? We get some doosies.

 

you seem to laugh a lot when trying to avoid a point or points that you don't like. Here, for the objective reader, is what you leave out http://www.politicalforum.com/index...lready-doing-it.569739/page-5#post-1072006005

You keep going on about a "burden" to the state...a state you obviously despise as evil capitalism. Fine, you don't like capitalism...many people don't, many don't realize they don't have the "capital" to be capitalist. But where you go off the deep end of reality is when you say, Self-reliance isn't about not going to doctors. I never said it was solely or wholly about that...but it IS a major part of life that essentially pokes a major hole in your statements...if you don't think so, then tell it to one of your like minded folk that comes down with an ailment you aren't prepared to deal with.. You are here because of the medical quality you received as a child and youth. Same with education (unless your parents were "off the grid"). Period. Also, your saying We still have to buy in animal protein.... makes my previous points. That you go on a tirade about urban dwellers smoking, getting fat, gambling, welfare.....more smug attitude that was prevalent in the 1980's...which is a joke as YOU are right now using a system YOU HAD NO HAND IN CREATING, yet you benefit from it. So much for "self reliance". Like I said, If you live in one of those communes or communities, more power to ya. But if your a hardcore "survivalist" or "prepper" my question stands valid....because maintaining such "redoubts" is a costly manner.

 

This is an incredibly weak response, KFL.

I'm not opposed to capitalism .. I'm opposed to people who live a capitalist lifestyle, but then demand socialism bail them out of the penury which results when working and middle class people try to live like there's no tomorrow (aka, champagne lifestyle on a beer budget).

Self-reliance means not needing to be 'rescued'! IOW, not becoming homeless, or needing welfare, or needing housing assistance, etc etc etc. It has nothing to do with medicine, or technology, or any other thing that you're cartoonishly added in. It means not deliberately making yourself dependent and helpless, in the full knowledge that the slightest upset will see you fall upon the tax payer for rescue ... while genuinely needy people who haven't made such selfish decisions, miss out on the resources you've absorbed.

Meantime, much of our First World privilege is a result of THE PEOPLE not exploiting the good will of working stiffs. We only got where we got because fewer people expected the world for nothing. That left a lot of resources for R & D, as it were. Our advancements are result of teamwork and good will. Both in very short supply today. Look forward to a rustic future, if you insist on the State funding of 7 billion. Or are you suggesting that only the First Worlder needs to be funded?

PS: Buying in protein is something we rarely do, FTR. And you're greatly mistaken if you think the off grid life is anything like costly. It's dramatically cheaper than a 'purchased' life.

 

So instead off self aggrandizing/condescending chuckling, you start off with subjective pronouncement. Either way, weak.

Let me just quickly pull the rug from under your screed here.

1. Yeah, we all understand class warfare...that still doesn't change the FACT that YOU depend to various degrees on that society's materials. "Prepping" essentially just prepares for abandonment and failure of that society...and that takes money, a job/career, etc. To date, I don't get a "just in case" vibe from preppers, more a smug "you just wait & see" attitude. The survivalist were a bit more forward about it. I find it amusing that folk of your mindset are blind to the irony of essentially being ticks on the bum of a society you just can't stand (or a distaste for of most of it's membership). But again, my original point is that folk like you existed in the 1980's...I wonder if they kept it up, gave it up, or just moved off the grid altogether. To date, you give nothing but anti-establishment smoke.

2. Self-reliance means not needing to be 'rescued'! As I pointed out to others, my relatives lived on a farm, and that lifestyle naturally meant "being prepared" in case of bad weather, natural disasters...preppers and survivalists want their cake and to eat it to. So be it. And guess what? If you live in a society and are taxed to have "emergency response" to disasters and such, that's the deal. If you want to live outside a city so as to not depend on such, cool. But spare us all the smug survivalist BS, because it doesn't stand to scrutiny. But since there is no data on folk off the grid died, survived or were rescued during natural disasters, your supposition and conjecture is just that.

3. Bottom line: anyone can list off the flaws of our current society...inequality and all. But YOU are NOT helping matters by taking what you need and abandoning the situation. Period. So the original question remains.

By the way: doesn't many frequency, it's a fact you still have to supply yourself with materials from the society you despise. Deal with it.