Since we have abortion threads full of humanists who want to bash Christians and talk about God every chance they get, I will give them something more to talk about. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=159L7HcACSQ&feature=youtu.be
So where does Mr. Crutcher ever get around to proving pro-choicers can't be Christian? Christianity spent a good portion of it's history supporting abortion and a better half of it's time arguing that the fetus only has a soul at around 4-5 months. Since the issue of when "ensoulment" happens to the fetal body is never touched upon in the bible, it is really anyone's guess if abortion actually kills. Examining the evidence, supporting abortion doesn't violate any of Christianity's principles.
Mr. Crutcher is not qualified to judge who is Christian and who is not. He is not making his determination guided by the Bible, since the Bible is silent on the subject of abortion. In this country we are free to choose to believe someone like Mr. Crutcher or to reject his theories and believe some who endorse the Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice. We are also free at present to make our life decisions based upon our own beliefs, however, if Mr. Crutcher has his way, we will all have to live according to his beliefs. http://rcrc.org/about/index.cfm RCRC was founded in 1973 to safeguard the newly won constitutional right to privacy in decisions about abortion. The Coalition founders were clergy and lay leaders from mainstream religions, many of whom had provided women with referrals to safe abortion services before the Supreme Court legalized abortion in Roe v. Wade. The founders believed that there would be at most a ten-year struggle to secure the right to choose. In fact the struggle is far from over. It has changed and intensified, and the stakes are growing. Today, the Religious Coalition comprises national organizations from major faiths and traditions and religiously affiliated and independent religious organizations, affiliates throughout the country, the national Clergy for Choice network, Spiritual Youth for Reproductive Freedom, The National Black Church Initiative, La Iniciativa Latina and individuals who support reproductive choice and religious freedom. We have a strong presence on Capitol Hill, working for policies to ensure reproductive healthservices are available to all, regardless of income and to strengthen reproductive justice. While our member organizations are religiously and theologically diverse, they are unified in the commitment to preserve reproductive choice as a basic part of religious liberty.
Especially for you CM Atheist and Agnostic Pro-Life League Membership Form To be eligible for AAPL membership, you must meet these three requirements: http://www.godlessprolifers.org/join.html
The problem with finding "pro-choice Christians" is that any time someone who does happen to be a Christian says they are pro-choice, the fundies say they aren't really Christians. Trick question if you ask me.
By fundies do you mean the ones who actually stand on the Word of God without trying to manipulate the Words on the pages of the Bible? People who don't tell God what He said was wrong? Not a trick question......it's the truth. You want to be a Christian then abide by the Word of God the way it is. If you don't find some other religion that you can manipulate to make your own.
You see my dear this is where you are going wrong and probably you don't even know it. You stand on the word of God, others try to live by it. But you are the one who interprets the word of God and pretends that only your interpretation is correct. Is it hypocrisy that you do one thing and then preach something else of sheer arrogance or probably both?
"Fundies" are your garden variety conservative Christians who manipulate the bible to appease their predefined republican views. According to them, the bible spends 90% of it's time on issues like abortion, homosexuality and etc. despite it's liberal views on war, socialism, taxation and crime and punishment.
And who are you to judge Mark Crutcher? See the thing is...you tell me I can't judge and then YOU do it. You judge all the time, everyone. NO...I take that back, not everyone as you let those in your camp who do not agree with late term abortion...run away free from judgement. I know Crutcher and what you say is not true. He does not care what you do personally...seriously. But he does not like baby killers and those who support them. The RCRC....does not stand on the Word of God. They rape the Word to make sin more pleasurable. Their work is not sacred but full of evil. Their crisis point will be after they die...and will have to face the God they have mocked. Then God will release his wrath on the work they do. They said...."We are lifting the national dialogue over abortion and birth control, from blame and judgment to understanding and wholeness." There is nothing whole about abortion, as those they condone to be killed are ripped and torn in pieces, burned and discarded like trash. The mainstream religions you are talking about...the big denominations are diminishing today. "Other mainline Protestant denominations have seen the same loss of members in recent decades." http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2010...ch-USA-down-by-50-percent/UPI-73411278436901/ http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/religion/2011-02-16-church_growth_15_ST_N.htm These are the churches that try to make both sides happy...those who stand on the Word and those who want to change it to fit society. People are flocking to the more evangelical churches. Those mainline churches have supported things that simple are sin...homosexual marriage, abortion etc. It is now tearing the Presbyterian Church apart. This is a good thing as it will cleanse those churches that are sinful...by either changing or closing. People have to make a stand and this might make the lines clearer which is a good thing. This is a so called religious group that helps women abort their children...nothing one earth could be more satanic than that. These are progressives that do not stand on the Word of God. I doubt most of them even read the Word to know what it says. They suck people with their diversity ideas. Diversity for them is to kill God children in the womb...for them, that is a good thing. They have not allowed Satan to have one foot in their door..they have invited him in to stay to be head of their organization. They also believe there are multiple ways to God..and this rapes what Christ said. They do not believe in informing parents but believe that deceiving them is better. This is what they said...... "As we strive toward these goals, we must also trust women to make moral decisions and to do what is best for themselves and their families, based on their own religious or spiritual understandings." Moral decisions? They know abortion is wrong and sin or they would not bring it up...for if that which is in the womb is not a human child, they would not make a statement like this. Sinning is not best for anyone and to encourage this...????? God will deal harsher with clergy who do this. In Ezekiel 34, the Bible uses the metaphor of a shepherd and his sheep to explain the accountability that leaders have over God's "flock." The Bible warns in James 3:1 that "Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly." God holds teachers and other leaders accountable for the ways in which they lead God's people." The fact is that this group puts religious liberty over the Word of God. The wrath is coming.
If you had read the Bible you would know that what you say here is hogwash. I do not try to manipulate the Bible...but stand on every Word as the truth. "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." Matthew 5:18
It is true that fundies are distinguished by their belief that the entire Bible is the literal word of God. These folks only make up a small percentage of Christians though. The rest of Christianity does not accept Biblical inerrancy. Since the Bible has passages that condone killing of the fetuses, and no passages that state directly that abortion is wrong (despite having numerous passages which state directly that other things are wrong) it seems to me that for the best position for the pro lifer to take is that the entire Bible is not the literal word of God. God commanded that the Israelites kill fetuses, and prophets prayed for God to kill fetuses of people they did not like, or were different, who worshiped other Gods, who sinned and so on. If you really want to abide by the "word of God" then you would have no problem with killing fetuses most of the time.
I am not sure what the purpose of your response is, but the new testament is a liberal's paradise minus it's social conservative views on sex.
Lets take one verse to examine ok. Jesus spoke these words. "I am the Way the Truth and the Life, No One comes to the Father except through Me." John 14:16 How would you interpret this? What is Jesus saying. Is it a statement of opinion or fact? Every Biblical translation states it one way.....what is it? http://biblehub.com/john/14-6.htm - - - Updated - - - A sinner will always try to find a loophole...but the results won't change, God makes this very clear.
Hence my point. You're not looking for pro-choice Christians, you're looking for someone who identifies as both so that you can tell them what you just told me. That's what a trick question is. Your god is quite fond of killing though, so using that same deity to forbid abortion makes no sense at all.
Killing, murdering is wrong...and anyone who takes matters into his own hands is wrong and will be punished. There have been over 160 million abortions since 1973...just in our country alone. I think the numbers are way higher than this because there are illegal facilities and states who do not report correct numbers. That is a lot of abortions. Now how many pro-lifers have killed abortion doctors. I will let you try to search for this...I already know. The fact is the number is so low its laughable. If there was a group of people who acted out in peace....its pro-lifers. I have been to marches and debates, done work on college universities...prayed and walked in front of PP clinics...and I have never seen violence....free speech yes...but not violence. Killing abortion doctors? 99.99% never happens.
Is this an apology...for banging my head against this one? I addressed it and you came after me for one month. Such dedication.
There is no longer any doubt. It's a darn shame that so many who preach this way, fail miserably in practice. Sincerely, The non-issue that doesn't matter..........
Tell us again why you feel you do NOT violate Titus 3:2. Then I'll post this- http://www.politicalforum.com/abortion/316249-pro-choice-christians-2.html#post1062969046 - - - Updated - - - BTW, if you're a pro-choice Christian....you're not a "real Christian". Churchlady says so.
I wouldn't, unlike you I do not pretend to know everything or understand everything about God. It is clear to me that God would not create millions of people on this Earth only to have them damned because He put them in places that could not possibly have herd of Him or Jesus for 1700 years or in some cases even 2000 years. Bottom line, I need not know everything or have to interpret everything. If and when I will need them He will let me know.
