Project Gunrunner (Fast & Furious) Part II

I neither agree nor disagree with your sources because you won't allow me to see them nor verify their so-called facts. This would seem to be the minimum requirement for any rational critical thinker. Unless, of course one were a blind ideologue....... which one are you?

 

How can I substantiate his facts if he won't let me see them? Should I just take his word on this?.....REALLY?


I suggest you stop the insults or you might be headed for another suspension. There are other forums that offer unlimited name-calling for people like you.

 

You've already written off the NRA and GOA, so why bother? They aren't sources you agree with. Of course, the information is becoming more and more available, even in the MSM. You just have to look and be willing to accept what is really happening.

 

Ayuh,... How 'bout posting Facts of yer own, contrary to those posted by those with opposing views,..??

Can't huh,..??
Probably because the Facts don't support yer argument...
'n of course, that would violate yer typical style of dragging threads off topic, rather than actually debating the topic...

Btw,... an edited post ain't a suspension....

 

You can't prove a negative, friend. Your question to me only distracts from the fact that you are blindly supporting something you cannot see nor substantiate. I see that your ideology compels you to believe almost anything.

Pity.

What "facts" are those, Bondo?

You mean, kinda like you're doing now?

 

If the facts are there, then post them. It's simple, really. Even a Washington Post story can be verified. YOUR sources on the other hand, thus far, seem to rely on vague conspiracies that cannot be substantiated.

This method of blind belief is no replacement for critical thinking. You don't see this?

 

Here's a link to a CBS post: Link

Another from FOX: Link

It's pretty clear that this is beyond a vague conspiracy, and has morphed into a downright scandal that took lives.

 

Ayuh,.... 'n now the accused are playin' the Race Card....

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2011/12/19/j...er-charges-critics-with-racism/#ixzz1h2I3VYVC

86 congressmen, 'n senators are calling for Holder's resignation,...

So am I.....

 

"If the facts are there, then post them. It's simple, really. Even a Washington Post story can be verified. YOUR sources on the other hand, thus far, seem to rely on vague conspiracies that cannot be substantiated."

You do understand the concept of circular reasoning or "Catch-22"? If the source of the facts must come from Holder or Obama for condemnation AND said parties are unwilling to release all relevant data (FACT), there is no source and "facts" must be inferred.

 

Finally,.... after how many requests now? You have finally posted some sources.

Frankly, I'm still not convinced. It appears to be a chicken/egg dilemma. Which one came first? Did the program precede the request for data (as it appears), or the reverse? An important detail, no?

 

And YOU do realize that when a member refers to E-mails and then cannot post a link to show them, that it will inevitably beg the question of authenticity? I wasn't asking for private Presidential conversations, friend. I was only asking for so-called facts that the other member had referred to.

 

The facts are:

Fast & Furious allowed guns into the hands of those that normally would be denied, not because of gun retailers, but because of the BATF.

Most of these guns were "lost" when they went south of the border, and only were "found" when they turned up in crime scenes, after the fact.

Many people were killed with these guns, including two U.S. Federal Officers.

The BATF did not want the public to know about this.

So, you may not be convinced, which is your right, but it is perfectly clear to many what has been going on.

Chicken/egg dilemma? Seriously?

 

Apparently you didn't read my post. You seem to be addressing something other than my point.

The letter you referred to in your post was concerning "long guns". Correct me if I'm wrong, but these guns are NOT regulated as to the number that can be sold at one time to a customer as handguns are.

So, the question remains; was this request for data by a separate department after the operation was enacted, or before? A salient point, notwithstanding your protestations. Lest we forget, your argument is that the PURPOSE of the program was to enact new gun control laws. Your source does NOT show this to be true. Maybe you didn't fully peruse it.

 

The purpose was certainly not catching and stopping gun smugglers?

 

Your statement was posed in the form of a question. This makes for a difficult conversation.

If you're asking what the purpose of the operation was, one would have to assume something other than the results, I'll grant you. This fact, however does NOT offer us any conclusions as to its original purpose. In my opinion, to buy into a vast and nefarious conspiracy based on a failure to produce intended results, is simply a fool's errand fed by a biased cynicism and not a true desire for truth.

How do YOU fall into this equation?

 

The specific e-mail you are referring to was sent after "Fast & Furious" was under way. Obviously, the sender could not request data until it was produced.

I still maintain that F & F was going to be used to enact more gun regulations. It may not have been the only intent, but one of the big ones nonetheless.

The media can finally see this. Why are you having such trouble?

 

Ayuh,... It's obviously quite easy to be blind, if the facts don't fit yer agenda...

 

There most certainly a conspiracy. It is where the parisipants are trying to stay out of prison for what they did.

 

Good. Now we're getting somewhere.

If a separate organization requested information from this program AFTER it was up and running, how can you logically conclude that the program was INTENDED to affect gun laws? It makes no logical sense and requires a blind bias to believe in.

Surely you can do better than this? I hope you haven't hinged your whole conspiracy on this little circumstance. It certainly doesn't present you as critical thinker.

Based solely, apparently on suppositions and ideological cynicism. Pity.

The NRA is not "media". To say FOX is "media" is stretching it too. Look, if the evidence is there, then produce it so we can all see it. If not, then admit that this is your own charade.

 

Perhaps it's time for you to stop trolling here and actually contribute something. You obviously believe in this thus-far baseless conspiracy. Please show me what "facts" you have that shows this program was put in place in order to enact new gun control laws.

This is a good time to show us all how you have the intelligence and good form to actually back up your incessant hollow prattle with something rational and tangible.

We're all watching, now. Don't let us down.

 

Which participants? The ones who thought they were doing something constructive? The ones who mishandled the operation? Who, and what exactly did they do? Do you even know this before you jump on the bandwagon of a wild conspiracy? I hope not. I'm often amazed here at the willingness of some anti-controllers to ignore facts, or not wait till the facts are out in favor of misplaced ideologies.

 

It is more than FOX News, GOA and the NRA that see this. As I have pointed out, the MSM is starting to see this. That e-mail is just but one piece of the puzzle. If you cannot see what their intent was, then you have not been reading much about this.

Of course the anti-gun Obama Administration and Justice Department would never want to regulate guns further.

Let me ask you this: What was the purpose of F & F then?

 

Is that what you call the "Main Stream Media"? MSM? Interesting. Can you support that with any proof, or should we just make believe we don't need any? I'm amazed that you wouldn't need more than that to form a reasoned opinion.

One lone piece of information that is unconnected to any other is not compelling friend. I have already addressed this. You should be more careful about jumping on the idealist bandwagon. It makes you look very gullible.

Critical thinking requires MUCH more than what has persuaded you. Pity.

I can only speculate based on the evidence, friend. Thus far, it simply looks like an operation to trace gun trafficking that went wrong. Do you have any information that would prove otherwise? If you do, I'd like to see it. Anything less will inevitably show a tremendous dislike for and personal vendetta against our President.

Not very patriotic, I'd say.

 

Attorney General Lanny Breuer most definately is going to jail. They guy who supervised him is probably going to jail too.

 

I see,...... In other words you have nothing, eh?

You're going to jump on the bandwagon, evidence be (*)(*)(*)(*)ed, I suppose. Pity,.... I'd hoped for more from you.