Putin suggests his plan to stop the civil war in Ukraine.

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Yazverg, Sep 3, 2014.

  1. dreamin'gal

    dreamin'gal New Member

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    Really....it's time to compromise.... and Winter is coming...:roll:
     
  2. Izverg

    Izverg Banned

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    Civil war broke out on 22 February. Kiev junta that ousted Yanukovych and banned Russian language on this day. This decision angered residents of the Crimea, Odessa, Donetsk, Kharkov and Lugansk. I think that the United States will be a civil war, if the oligarchs overthrown Obama and banned English.
     
  3. Yazverg

    Yazverg Well-Known Member

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    The beginning of a civil war is never easy. Like in USA it has different layers of truth and there is no one guy or side which is guilty in everything. Civil war is a tragedy of all.
    Peace in a civil war is possible only when all the reasons for the war are overcome. So let me inumerate these reasons:

    1) Conflict for Ukraine between Russia and West. Russia needed Ukraine as a production partner. Since soviet times Ukrainian production facilities are natural partners of russian and vice versa. The industrial facilities were not emerging by themselves or built by capitalists like it happened in the west. Soviet facilities were planned from the very beginning. USSR was acting like a biggest capitalist and it planned its facilities in order to give the job to all the people in all the republics, to use smart the natural resources all over the country etc. So it was natural to use Donbass coal and Siberia metals (for instance) in order to transport them to Urals for making tractors there. During the 23 years Russia managed to lower its need for ukrainian goods, but about 30% of ukrainian economy (particularly in the eastern Ukraine) is existing due to the old ties with Russia. EU needs Ukraine as a new market in order to restart growth or to soften the fall. US plans to sell its oil and gas to EU at a high price politically motivated against of Russia. This problem needs to be solved. The conflict of interests should be overcome. How? I don't know. I even think that it is impossible. All these interests are vital and noone would agree with a loss.

    2. Language and cultural problem. Ukraine is inhabited with the ethnically the same people as people in Russia. But during these 23 years the state policy of Ukraine was to supress russian language and russian culture. Eastern ukrainians and especially crimeans were strongly against such a policy. If we look at the results of any elections we would see that east and Crimea voted for any political party which promised a status of state language to russian. Not only that. Eastern Ukraine suffered a lot during the WW2. The heroes of western Ukraine are the guys who served under fascists. An artificial cultural conflict has no solution. Noone can regard both sides of war as heroes simultaneously. It's either or.

    3. Crimea. Odessa Khatyn'. War in Donbass.
    Crimeans wouldn't return to Ukraine peacefully. Their strong negative attitude towards ukrainian ideology exceeds anyone's on Earth. But for western ukrainians the integrity of Ukraine is holy and if anyone doesn't agree with it - he should die. Quite a peaceful protest in Odessa due to provocation ended up with a mass slaughter of anti-ukrainian anti-fascists. It was a definite act of terror which boosted the civil war. And after every bombing, rocketing and shot such a war is getting deeper and deeper. The solution needs to regard the desire of revenge for western ukrainians and desire of eastern ukrainians to be free. ANd we should also understand that these different people are living on ALL the territory of Ukraine. Some pro-ukrainian minority lives in Donetsk. Some pro-russian minority lives in L'vov. So the problem cannot be decided and overcome even by separation or federalisation.

    You think Putin can solve any of these problems alone? I don't regard him as superhuman. :) I think that current generation will not be able to solve the problem. Ukraine government should be forced from UN in order to educate a new generation on the basis of respect of different people and valueing human life as the most value. In the meantime Ukraine needs any peace, time and law. Then maybe in 50 or 70 years this conflict will be solved. As for major powers they should get around and try to discuss the existing economical and civilization crisis openly. It is obvious that political and economical elite of mankind is incapable to solve the global problems. They had all the time and failed. But that is not about Ukraine of course.
     
  4. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Banned

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    Great for you to think that. What does that have to do with what I said?
     
  5. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Banned

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    So what does this have to do with anything? It doesn't. Why? Because Putin would have to take all that into account when making his peace talking points. So by leaving out the idea of who's going to be in control, it's not a peace offering. It's just kicking the can down the road.
     
  6. Izverg

    Izverg Banned

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    I wrote has the most immediate and direct relevance.
     
  7. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Banned

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    Then why don't you explain the relevancy?
     
  8. Izverg

    Izverg Banned

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