Question For John Atheist: Don't You Want To Remember Your Good Deeds Forever?

But Buddhism says that your energy will become part of the Universal energy. Prove them wrong.

 

Regarding the bolded black:
That's a very strange unusual remark in light of the fact that
the word FAITH is used in the Bible in literally hundreds of
passages and in 100% of them FAITH is praised and
encouraged as something God desires that all people
have and exercise -- here are 3 of hundreds
{1} "Have faith in God."__The Lord Jesus Mark 11:22
{2) "without faith it is impossible to please God"
{3} "for by grace are you saved through faith" {assumption: faith is a good thing}

Its not possible to remove what you call "circular reasoning"
from a Biblical based Christianity -- take for example the
statement "without faith it is impossible to please God."

How do I know that statement is really true?
Because I believe that God, through His Holy Spirit, inspired the
New Testament book of Hebrews and therefore inspired that
particular statement,
So?
So it is true.
How do I know it is true?
Because God said it was true in Hebrews 11:6
"without faith it is impossible to please God"__Hebrews 11:6
And THAT is pure circular reasoning -- which is a GOOD thing
because Christianity is a FAITH.

JAG

More later , , , ,


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Same old same old.
All that is up there is just another version of your demand for empirical
evidences BEFORE you will believe in Jesus as your Savior. The
assumption of your post is this: You can NOT demonstrate with
empiricism that Christianity is true and say Islam is not true. So? So I
Swensson will NOT believe in Jesus as my Savior until you DO
demonstrate that Christianity is true and Islam is not true and
demonstrate it with empiricism too.

You're using the old comparative religions thingy as your intellectual
excuse for refusing to believe in the God that created you and in the
Lord Jesus who died in your place on Calvary's cross He died in your
place and bore your sins so that you will not have to bear them and
pay for them -- if you will believe in Him as your Savior -- otherwise
you will at some future point on the time line, personally pay for your
own sins. The Bible calls that the "perish" of John 3:16 -- Jesus, God
said in the Bible "was made to be sin for us", this means He paid
for our sins. He was the Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the
world."

So what solution is there for you? None. There is no solution. Why
not? Because you reject faith in the Bible and in the God of the Bible.
The Bible tells you that Christianity is the one true faith and that the God
of the Bible is the one true God -- and you either will, or will not, choose
to believe that. As it stands now you choose NOT to believe that and so
there is no answer to your "comparative religions" thingy. You'll have to
stick with it and "play it on out to the end" and see what happens when
you die.

Meanwhile the Lord Jesus is still standing at the door knocking.
Rev. 3:20

JAG


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That's all pure gobbledygook.
I have been clear as a bell and have been bold too.
I have answered all your questions with clear bold answers,
Let me try again.
I know Christianity is true because I have personally experienced the
peace and joy given to me by the Holy Spirit over several decades.
I know that God has forgiven me of my sins and I know that I have
peace with God. Romans 5:1
I have the witness of the Holy Spirit in my heart and mind that tells me
Christianity is true and that tells me I belong to the Lord Jesus.
It is impossible to demonstrate as true anything in this post with
empirical evidences. It must all rest upon FAITH. {Here is where
you post the standard atheist-Sec-Humie reply, which has only
been posted 50 million times in Thread World on the Internet At
Large.}

Add this:

Here is what I rest upon:

What God Does With Our Sins

{1} Isaiah 53:6
(He lays them on His Son, the Lord Jesus)
We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.

{2} John 1:29
(Christ takes them away)
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and
said, Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin
of the world!

{3} Psalm 103: 11-12
(They are removed an infinite distance from us)
For as high as the heavens are above the earth,
so great is his love for those who fear him;
as far as the east is from the west,
so far has he removed our transgressions from us.


{4} Jeremiah 50:20
(When sought that are not found)
In those days, at that time
declares the Lord,
search will be made for Israel's guilt,
but there will be none,
and for the sins of Judah,
but none will be found,
for I will forgive the remnant I spare.

{5} Eph. 1:7-8
(The Lord forgives them)
In him we have redemption through his blood, the
forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of
God's grace that he lavished on us."

{6} 1 John 1:7
(He cleanses them all by the blood of His Son)
"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship
with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son, cleanses us from
all sin."


{7} Isaiah 1:18
(He cleanses them as white as wool and snow)
Come now, let us settle the matter,
says the Lord.
Though your sins are like scarlet,
they shall be as white as snow;
though they are red as crimson,
they shall be like wool.

{8} Isaiah 55:6-7
(He freely pardons our sins)
Seek the Lord while he may be found;
call on him while he is near.
Let the wicked forsake their ways
and the unrighteous their thoughts.
Let them turn to the Lord, and he will have mercy on them,
and to our God, for he will freely pardon.

{9} Micah 7: 18-19
(He tramples our sins underfoot)
Who is a God like you,
who pardons sin and forgives the transgression
of the remnant of his inheritance?
You do not stay angry forever
but delight to show mercy.
You will again have compassion on us;
you will tread our sins underfoot

{10} Hebrews 10:17-18
(He remembers them no more)
Then he adds: Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.
And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin
is no longer necessary.

{11} Isaiah 38:16-17
(He casts them behind His back)
You restored me to health
and let me live.
Surely it was for my benefit
that I suffered such anguish.
In your love you kept me
from the pit of destruction;
you have put all my sins
behind your back.

{12} Micah 7:18-19
(He hurls all our sins into the depths of the sea)
Who is a God like you,
who pardons sin and forgives the transgression
of the remnant of his inheritance?
You do not stay angry forever
but delight to show mercy.
You will again have compassion on us;
you will tread our sins underfoot
and hurl all our iniquities into the depths of the sea.

{13} Romans 4:7-8
(He will never count our sins against us)
Blessed are those
whose transgressions are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.
Blessed is the one
whose sin the Lord will never count against them.

{14} Romans 4:7
(He covers our sins)
Blessed are those
whose transgressions are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.

{15} Isaiah 43:25
(He blots them out)
I, even I, am he who blots out
your transgressions, for my own sake,
and remembers your sins no more.

{16} Isaiah 44:22
(He swept them away as a thick cloud)
I have swept away your offenses like a cloud,
your sins like the morning mist.
Return to me,
for I have redeemed you.

{17} Col. 2:13-15
(He cancels out even the proof against us,
nailing it to His cross)
"When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of
your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our
sins, having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which
stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing
it to the cross. And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he
made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross."

We can add one more: 1 John 1:9
"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just and will forgive us
our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness."


JAG


More later . . .

PS
So you can understand why your "Nigerian Prince" thingy
means zero to me.


``

 

But YOU are NOT the authority on what is, or is not, reality.
You don't have the power to decide for me that FAITH has
not lead me to reality. I am NOT subject to your intellectualisms.
I am not subject to your many assumptions and presuppositions
based in your Religion Of Secular Humanism. I reject your
Religion Of Secular Humanism as just another religion that
has zero answers to all the questions that really matter. If you
have no interest in remaining alive after your physical body
dies then those questions are not important to you then we
don't have much left to say to each other.
The Lord Jesus told me this:

"I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in
me will live, even though they die; and whoever lives by
believing in me will never die."__The Lord Jesus

YOU on the other hand have NOTHING to offer me in this
area.

So?

So I have ZERO interest in anything you have to say on the
subject of religion.

YOU offer me ZERO,

I do not want what you have.
I do not wan to know what you know.
Your path leads to permanent DEATH.
You are welcome to your path.
Keep it.

JAG


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Isaiah is one book about Israel despite Christianity's interpretation. Your quoting chapter and verse means nothing. There were no chapters and verses in the original Hebrew. The books were complete books. The Bible was divided into Chapters and verses in the 14th century by a Catholic priest. And he split is according to Christian interpretation. This caused problems between Christians and Jews because Jews did not accept the Christian version - namely the new chapter 53. A Levi then omitted this chapter from Jewish daily 'studies/contemplations' to avoid the trouble. Isaiah does not contain any reference to Jesus. 'Chapter 53' does not really exist.
What earlier Jews did was to divide the OT into sections called Parashot. These were for annual readings of the Torah. Similar to Christians daily Bible readings. Isaiah contains 4 Suffering Servant Songs - not just Isaiah 53. this is the 4th and actually begins in Chapter 52. They all refer to Israel as the suffering servant. Pierced on all sides by enemies and yet will come out victorious in the end.

 

And you have nothing to offer but words in a book which is proving more questionable as time goes on.

 

RE: Question For John Atheist: Don't You Want To Remember Your Good Deeds Forever?
SUBTOPIC: Source of Information
⁜→ et al,

BLUF: The supernatural (what theologians call the "Word of God") and those that create significant Religious Primers (written by the "Hand Guided by God" ) are just as mysterious today as they were at the time of "Animism" (spirits detached from nature) and "Hinduism" (way of life) ... are the oldest known religions. But there is little question that man has wondered about the power behind the natural world (Air • Earth • Fire • Water). It was much later, but eventually, the concept of a "spirit" emerged. And then, the symbols for such came much - much later. But today, these representations of the natural powers (Air • Earth • Fire • Water) and the supernatural (the spirit) still play a part in some surviving rites.

​

(COMMENT)

Today, the attempt to understand the two general force sets → {supernatural} + {natural laws} → are parallel to the concepts of {Faithbased Beliefs} + {Scientific Beliefs}. What is strange is that humanity has not quite understood how these two sets fit together. Nor does humanity understand how our mental faculties serve to process knowledge and if each human has understood the concepts of the Significant Religious Texts of Major Religions in very similar ways. We also know that it is impossible, at our current level of understanding, for one set of beliefs to prove or disprove the viability of the other.

The understanding of what it means to have engaged in a "Good Deed." Is it an unconditional act or expression of compassion? Is a "Good Deed" universally observed the same way between the various cultures. For instance the Arab Palestinian Culture it is not uncommon for a "Palestinian Arab Official Admits "Killing Israelis is not Terror, it's Legitimate" --- whereas in a typical American Culture, that would be an unthinkable position to hold. Needless to say, the concept of a "Good Deed" is not universal.


Most Respectfully,
R








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I haven't said anything about a 2+2=4 level of certainty, I have asked you for the justification for your belief. The level of certainty is something I'd expect to fall out from the reasoning, but I don't suggest that they have to be like 2+2=4. I believe I have an onion in my fridge, that's not like 2+2=4, but I still feel justified in believing it.

Do you think I should spend more time on that choice than the equivalent choices in Islam or Hinduism? Have you? If so, why? Do you think your answers to the choice would differ if you picked a different religion to consider first?

You may notice that this paragraph (and a similar one on a similar subject further down) contain several questions, whereas most of my paragraphs do not. This is because most of the time, I trust that we can between us figure out which direction to take the discussion in. However, on this topic, you tend to dodge around the questions and answer related questions, but which don't actually probe the issue I'm trying to get at. Therefore, I ask that you specifically answer the questions as I have asked them.

 

This seems to be a completely different answer than the ones before. You haven't provided any reason to believe that the peace and joy is a reliable path to truth. Like in the case of a heroin addict, it might in fact hinder search for truth more than help.

Not really. The Nigerian prince example is an example where you get promised a reward, but there is no justification for belief, and the most prudent solution is to not take up the offer. No matter how high the reward gets, the offer never becomes believable or becomes a good idea (because a lie or a mistake is equally if not more capable of racking up the reward). The rosey picture you paint in the quotes above are the reward in the analogy. No matter how much you add, it doesn't make the claim more believable.

You may recall that I asked you specifically whether you see that the magnitude of the reward doesn't affect the believability. This should be a yes or no question. You're dodging around the question, answering instead whether you think it matters to you, or different questions altogether. I'd appreciate it if you answer the question I ask instead of incorrectly second guessing where the argument is going and load up a bunch of quotes that don't help me understand your position.

Yeah, but if belief in the Bible is based on circular reasoning, then it is not unlikely that the Bible is simply wrong about those things. It doesn't matter how many times it is said, a lie doesn't become a truth just because you repeat it.

So when the Quran says in Sura 98:2 and 3:3 that Allah sent the Quran and it contains the truth, would you say that you know that that statement is really true? Would you say it is a "GOOD" thing to believe it?

 

Sounds about right.

The comparative religion I only use as a device to talk to you. Most of my criticisms are the same fundamental problem, framed in different ways, and the comparative religion framing is one that has seemed to resonate with you before. Fundamentally, the reason ("excuse") for refusing to believe in Christianity is that no good reason has been given for it. Comparative religions just illustrates whether a reason can be considered good (since if the same kind of reasoning can lead to a false conclusion, then it's not a good justification).

Of course there are answers to the comparative religions thingy. The most obvious one is that you are mistaken. That all of the justifications you have presented are actually after-the-fact constructions, and the real reason you believe it is because you got duped into it.

I would rather have no answers than false answers. A question being important does not entitle us to throw caution to the wind and believe stuff that we can't use our reliable tools of reasoning on. At least having no answers allows us to formulate an approach taking the fact that we have no answers into account. Taking on answers on faith alone is what runs planes into buildings.

Attractive offerings are not a substitute for justifications. That's why we don't send our money to Nigerian princes and con artists.