Question for Muslims: 9th Surah

I would like to understand how a regular practioner of Islam understands Surah 9

I recognize that the only official Koran is in Arabic, but obviously, not all of us are able to understand that, so that's why I linked to an English translation.

To me, this surah, which was the second to the last surah revealed, seems to clearly state that unbelievers should be converted by force, or killed. I would like an explanation so that I can be corrected if this is an inappropriate reading.

Also--I have a second question for Muslims:

Mohamed redacted some verses from the Koran and claimed they had been recited to him by the Evil one rather than from the one God Allah through Gabriel. I don't understand, then, how the claim that the Koran is the perfect word of God if it was corrupted (by Mohamed's admission) and then "corrected" by redaction. Please explain.

Thank you in advance.

 

[9:8] How [can there be a treaty] while, if they gain dominance over you, they do not observe concerning you any pact of kinship or covenant of protection? They satisfy you with their mouths, but their hearts refuse [compliance], and most of them are defiantly disobedient.
[9:9] [/i]They have exchanged the signs of Allah for a small price and averted [people] from His way. Indeed, it was evil that they were doing.[/i]
[9:10] They do not observe toward a believer any pact of kinship or covenant of protection. And it is they who are the transgressors.

[9:11] But if they repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, then they are your brothers in religion; and We detail the verses for a people who know.
[9:12] And if they break their oaths after their treaty and defame your religion, then fight the leaders of disbelief, for indeed, there are no oaths [sacred] to them; [fight them that] they might cease.
[9:13] Would you not fight a people who broke their oaths and determined to expel the Messenger, and they had begun [the attack upon] you the first time? Do you fear them? But Allah has more right that you should fear Him, if you are [truly] believers.

There is more to Surah at-Tawbah than the first sentance of verse 5, and verse 29.

 

I'm not sure what you are saying here. I have read the whole surah. Please explain.

 

Actually, the incident with the Devil shows Muhammad PBUH was a Prophet of God, and that the Quran is the true word of Allah SWT.

Because, if Muhammad SAW was a false Prophet and the Quran wasn't the word of Allah SWT the devil wouldn't have tried to trick the Muslims.

Just like the Devil did with Moses and Jesus, peace be upon them.

 

Those verses explain what the Surah is about. It is not simply just killing non-believers until they convert, there is a history behind what is said.

 

My understanding is that the Koran is not of Mohamed, but rather God. If that is so, how could it be that any "tricking" could go on--Isn't God/Allah in control?

 

Can you give the context of the history? It does seem that there is some "agreement" alluded to, but it also seems as if those that are called "idolatars" (which I believe are referring to Jews and Christians if I'm correct) are required to act as Muslims in prayer and profession. That to me sounds like forcing "conversion" at least in action. And then to "break the agreement" is to no longer act as if they are Muslim. Then killing them seems justified by this surah. Please show me where I am in error in my reading/understanding of this.

 

Yes, and that is why Muhammad PBUH knew the verses were from the devil.

[53:19] So have you considered al-Lat and al-'Uzza?
[53:20] And Manat, the third - the other one?
[53:21] Is the male for you and for Him the female?
[53:22] That, then, is an unjust division.
[53:23] They are not but [mere] names you have named them - you and your forefathers - for which Allah has sent down no authority. They follow not except assumption and what [their] souls desire, and there has already come to them from their Lord guidance.

At the time of the verses 53:19 and 53:20, Muhammad PBUH was thinking of a way to end the hostilities between Muslims and the Quraish, the "satanic verses" did just that. The Quraish were very happy to hear the verses, and some even embraced Islam.

But, Muhammad PBUH was told by Jibreel (Gabriel) that those verses were not from Allah SWT, and so 53:23 was given to Muhammad PBUH. That brought back the hostility, but preserved the divinity of the Quran.

If Muhammad PBUH was a false Prophet, devil wouldn't have tried to corrupt the Quran with his words, and Muhammad PBUH wouldn't of known it happened.

 

Okay--that is an explanation. I'm still a bit confused about how Mohammed could be originally fooled by it if he was truly the prophet of God, and the Koran is the perfect word. It's the recitation that was perfect, and Mohammed recited wrong under the influence of the Evil one--that seems to suggest the recitation WASN'T perfect and had to be corrected.

Also, isn't Jesus considered a prophet in Islam? But don't Muslims believe his teaching was corrupted?

 

at least you are reading

[9.32] They desire to put out the light of Allah with their mouths, and Allah will not consent save to perfect His light, though the unbelievers are averse

yea, i find bunches of people like to put down the good of the light

them kind live in the darkness of religious bias; corrupt

i aint muslim, but look at a quran like a bible or even as a torah with talmud

lots of the same stuff


for example: [9.76] But when He gave them out of His grace, they became (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)rdly of it and they turned back and they withdrew.

[9.77] So He made hypocrisy to follow as a consequence into their hearts till the day when they shall meet Him because they failed to perform towards Allah what they had promised with Him and because they told lies


it even has stuff that fits the people like you


all three of the main religious books of the abrahamic religions have the same stuff about people like you.

oh boy!!!

 

you mean, just like moses and jesus, muhammad had his works corrupted just like many others

allah nor muhammad wrote any of the literature.

quran, aint pure!

 

Please ignore Bishadi's trolling.

 

Playing gotcha games is not attractive in anyone who claims to be devout.

This thread is trolling.

 

Ridiculous. I would have to know the answer to attempt to play "gotcha." I'm trying to understand the thought behind the faith and to separate the fiction about Islam from what Islam actually claims.

Trot off Margot, if you just want to get in the way of exchanging information.

 

You haven't been "exchanging information" in weeks, felicity.......

 

Please ignore Margot's trolling.

 

or maybe he did not like how some of it turned out and needed an excuse to change it

or someone added that into the story later

 

From what I understand, he was thinking of a way to settle the tension, so when he got the verses 53:19 and 53:20, Satan used Muhammad PBUH desire to make him recite "These are the exalted cranes, whose intercession is hoped for".

Muhammad PBUH was almost desperate to stop the persecution by the Quraish, and Iblis (Devil) simply exploited it. Like he tried with Prophets before him.

We believe Jesus PBUH is a Prophet, yes. He is mentioned more in the Quran, Mary PBUH has a Surah named after her and she isn't mentioned more times in the Quran than the NT. She is considered one of the greatest women to ever live.

We believe the Bible and Torah were both corrupted yes, but not by the Devil, rather by man. We believe that the people of the time editted their respective Scriptures, sent from Allah SWT to Moses and Jesus PBUT, causing it to be corrupt. Jesus PBUH teachings are not corrupted though, only the Bible when it says things like he was God, or the son of God. We believe he was a messenger, not God or a son of God

 

Treaty of Hudaybiyah.

Muhammad PBUH and the Quraish agreed on a 10 year peace treaty. But, an ally if the Quraish violated the treaty when they attacked a Muslim Bedouin tribe, allied to Muhammad PBUH.

The verses refer to the Pagans/polythiests/idolators who broke the treaty, not all Pagans in general. The ones who didn't violate it, and didn't try to fight the Muslims, were granted safety. Allah SWT commanded them to protect them (9:6) and not to instigate a war with them (9:7).

The idolators are not Christians and Jews. The Quraish were a Pagan tribe, who worshipped 360 idols. The Christians and Jews are People of the Book.

The agreement being broken is the peace treaty of Hudaybiyah, not because they weren't being Muslims. The agreement was never about them being Muslims.

 

Response: Regarding evil verses, there is nothing from the Qur'an or sunnah stating that such verses were put in the qur'an. Regarding chapter 9,by asking for the meaning of one surah is taking is to ask to take things out of context. The qur'an is to be understood in its entirety. However, if this may answer your qiestion, verse 13 of yhe same chapter states that the non-muslims attacked first, while there are verses within the chapter staying that fighting those who do not fight you is forbidden. Thus the ordering of fighting nonbelievers is in the context of self-defense from the non-muslims who attempt to fight muslims.

 

I see. Since that happened and it is recognized and recorded, I think that would lead me to question the authenticity of other parts. My line of thinking is that if it happened once to Mohammed, couldn't it have happened elsewhere also? And elswhere perhaps it wasn't corrected, and then that would lead me to question the whole thing...

...I understand that it is a matter of faith, though.

I had heard that is so. In fact, she and Jesus are both mentioned in the Surah I cited in my OP.

2 things.

1--Is there something specific that points to that editing of the Bible?

and 2--Isn't the Koran "edited?" I've read about something called "abrogation." Can you explain how that is different from what you're calling "editing" of the Judeo-Christian Scriptures?

So...is there record of Jesus' teachings that are not viewed by Muslims as "corrupted?"

 

Thank you. I'll have to read about this a bit to be able to ask intelligent questions about it.

 

Like the first time, if it did happen again, it would of been corrected instantly.

It was Jibreel who first told Muhammad PBUH, not Muhammad PBUH on his own. He would of done it for every time it happened.

[5:14] And from those who say, "We are Christians" We took their covenant; but they forgot a portion of that of which they were reminded. So We caused among them animosity and hatred until the Day of Resurrection. And Allah is going to inform them about what they used to do.
[5:15] O People of the Scripture, there has come to you Our Messenger making clear to you much of what you used to conceal of the Scripture and overlooking much. There has come to you from Allah a light and a clear Book.

The arbograted verses are abrogated by Allah SWT, because the verses were no longer relevant to the situations the Muslims faced.

[2:106] We do not abrogate a verse or cause it to be forgotten except that We bring forth [one] better than it or similar to it. Do you not know that Allah is over all things competent?

The difference is, we believe it wasn't God who editted the Torah and Gospel, but rather the Jews and Christians.

I think everything other than Jesus PBUH being God and the son of God is accepted in Islam.

 

The book itself is written by men......Even if the inspiration was supposed to come from god.

Men can be tricked and tempted.

 

The copy of today is from one of Muhammads' PBUH wives, Hafsa, who, like all Muslims memorized the Quran. That copy was the standard used by Uthman.

The reason the Quran cannot be corrupted is because since day one, Muslims have been memorizing the Quran. So, if it was changed, the Muslims would of known and told the Prophet. To this day, we would know if something is changed.

Unless you want to believe there was a big conspiracy by all Muslims of that time to corrupt the Quran. Be my guest.

Another reason is, nobody could make Surahs even close to the literary level of Allag SWT. Allah SWT openly challenged anybody to write a Surah like the Quran (a poetic masterpiece), poetry being a big thing to Arabs, and nobody could do it. To this day, not one person has been able to complete the challenge.