Question for Muslims: 9th Surah

Response: Intent is very much important. Every deed is judged by intent in islam. Thus simply believing different from islam is not an example of inciting violence and such doubt in a muslim is not justifiction for violence. For their intent is not violent.

 

Do you see how I might be confused? Alif Qadr said that to cause "doubt" was harm and that harm was just reason to forfeit life. You said your view was the same--Alif Qadr agreed, and now you're saying something different. This is very confusing. Can you please clarify it all. What constitutes harm?

From the context of our discussion, Alif Qadar stated that words alone can be harm...

And then he acknowledged that they are indeed deserving of death.

Then you ultimately said you agreed with him. So now I want to know if my being Christian and sharing my Christian faith is considered slanderous to Muslims--AND if it is "slanderous" because I profess that Jesus is God and Mohammed is not God's messenger, does that mean I am an "utterer" who in your view should "forfeit [my] life?"

The way this has be explained, on the one hand, it seems so, on the other it seems there is denial of that. Please clarify.

 

Response: As stated before, every deed is judged by intent. Thus there is no harm in your claims of Jesus since your intent is not to incite violence and causes violence.

 

Thank you, Fatihah.

Alif Qadr, is that also your view?

 

*****

This is one thing that I like about you, Fel...you are a 'bull dog' in sheep's clothing (as in, 'little ole me?)

 

Just would like to get back on topic. The question still stands, Alif Qadr--I did not get that from your prior posts, but would like to know if that is indeed what you meant.

 

Felicity, I do not engage in what is a divide and conquer scheme. Fatihaha and myself have given response and response and if they are not satisfactory for you, than there is nothing more than can be done to satisfy your need in this conversation.

 

I am not doing what you accuse me of (and the fact that you suspect that is weird and suggest that you may not agree with him). I am trying to ascertain the REAL point of view and you in particular are very evasive.

In Christianity, there is a lot of variation in interpretation. Protestants believe very differently about things such as sin, mercy, suffering, justice, etc...than their Catholic counterparts (and even among themselves). I happen to be Catholic, and even though within Catholicism there is much disagreement on matters for the lay person, Catholics have a final authority that settles it (still some argue the points though).

Anyway--I state the above to show you from where my questions come. I RECOGNIZE the practice of faith varies among people. Islam seems very closed to discussing this variation which I find interesting. In another thread, someone questioned why there aren't more Muslims condemning some acts of fellow Muslims that seem very worthy of condemnation--I am curious about that also. As a Catholic, I have no qualms condemning the acts of sexually abusing priests. I do not hesitate to condemn the use of inappropriate fertility/infertility treatments that are anti-life.

I also recognize that I live in a bubble of my experiences. Islam is something I know a little about, but not very much, and I know (from my own experience as a Catholic) that what others SAY a religion believes and practices can be VERY DIFFERENT from what is actually believed and practiced.

So--I thought it appropriate and charitable to "go to the source" so to speak. ASK MUSLIMS what they really believe and think about things. I'm sorry you find it an attack. That says something too, you know.

Is there an "authority" in Islam that explains the faith as we Catholics have--the Catechism?

If there is a source, I am not aware of it. If there is, you could direct me to it, and I could read it myself and not have to bother you.

Again--I hope you recognize I am sincerely seeking the facts, and knowledge--not attempting to "trap" you into anything that I have a pre-conceived notion about. (Bishadi is a troll when it comes to accusing others of such antics, and so I certainly hope you have the discernment to see that and ignore his silly accusations).

 

Seems like the Koran has a few things in common with the book of Mormon then...
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KK-Zmk6xbc"]Corrections & Changes to the Book of Mormon (Gold Plates, Joseph Smith, LDS) - YouTube[/ame]

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_116_pages

 

Bump reminder....

 

If you are looking for a source of Islam, all you have to do is read Qur'an. You do not need any other "source" to comprehend what Islam is all about. I too have read The Bible (Turat(OT) and Injil(Good News or Gospel) plus Revelation and I have found that it is nothing like what is taught in churches. So my advice to you is if you want to learn about Islam, read Qur'an. I have and still do. I have actually read Qur'an 13, from cover to cover and just opening Qur'an and reading from that point forward. I have a clear comprehension of Qur'an which is why I am in defense of it. I have recently taken the position of not being on the defensive of the Qur'an being that there is no lie found within it. It even clears up the lies that have been intentionally and unintentionally added to The Bible (which is one of the reasons it was revealed to Muhammad ibn Abdullah (PBUH).

I also love how people who do not follow Injil nor Turat like to take "jabs" at Islam and Qur'an (not you Felicity, I am taking you at your word). It is very easy for them to do such things when they do not even follow the most basic of what Propet Isa taught which is found in those Ten rules of basic behavior (Ten Commandments). Word to the wise, speak not ill of that which you know nothing about, lest your evil words fall back onto you and your little garden of pride is dried up and blown away.

 

Thank you for responding. I feel somewhat similarly about the Bible and people who haven't actually read it who think they have any business commenting on its message in toto. That's just pride and ignorance.

I am satisfied with the Faith I practice and profess. It is fulfilling, and I have spent much time in study of it (always room for more!). So, I'm not terribly interested in reading the Koran in the contemplative way you suggest. I suppose I am not disposed to be open to its message in the manner a seeker of holiness would need to be to understand it as you suggest would occur, since I am filled by my own Scriptures and the Divinity of the Holy Spirit.

Still, I am interested in the experience of faith in my fellow man and that is why I asked for personal responses and interpretation. We are all children of God after all--no matter what faith we practice--God is superior to our notions of Him. So if you feel you cannot explain it satisfactorily because one must be spoken to through the scriptures, I suppose that will have to do.

It does appear to an outsider that there are degrees of belief and differing interpretations--but again, that raises the question as to why Muslims don't condemn some acts that seem worthy of condemnation. I want to understand the reason. Perhaps there is no disagreement and I just don't understand the rationale...I just don't know....