raising taxes on alcohol and tobacco products

Discussion in 'Drugs, Alcohol & Tobacco' started by Tribearer_Eko, Oct 28, 2011.

  1. Tribearer_Eko

    Tribearer_Eko New Member

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    Many of these intakes are un-needed in society and cause problems for the user both in bodily health and actions.
    Alcohol and tobacco both are un-needed in society. What good comes from such indulgences? None, however economist would disagree because a great amount of money is contributed to the economy by those who purchase these products. The vast majority of effects the products have on people are negative. Alcohol impairs judgments and mobility, causes liver cancer, and heightens certain emotions. Tobacco restricts the respiratory system, causes lung or oral cancer. Specialists have, many times, stated that smoking takes years off one’s life. Deaths from tobacco are not only of the smoker but also those around them, from second and third hand smoke. The products are the corruption of the body and of society.
    Taxes would be raised and customers would realize how much money they are spending on these goods. Many would buy these things much less or stop altogether; eventually the tax would keep getting higher until the market is so low that these products are taken off. This is a less aggressive act against the problem of alcohol and tobacco.
    Tobacco and alcohol are not a positive influence on society and only offer money in return, but is money worth the deaths and corruption of innocent people? The goal that will hopefully be achieved with the increase of the taxation on these harmful products is the annexation of them. This will benefit generations to come.
     
  2. Jack Ridley

    Jack Ridley New Member

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    Define "problem".
    "Un-needed" for what?
    Prove it.
    But not all, huh?
    Some people have the problem of judging too much.
    Oooh, specialists!
    Suicide is a right.
    What is "society"?
    Taxation is theft.
    I don't know, you're the one in favour of taxation.
     
  3. xsited1

    xsited1 New Member

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    It sounds like you go to the same church as Adolph Hitler.
     
  4. Tribearer_Eko

    Tribearer_Eko New Member

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    problem= disease, accidents, addicts, murders, rapes, etc.

    "un-needed"= what benifet comes from these products? it doesn't improve your health in any way, it doesn't help your job, or help in any way.

    prove it= Experts estimate alcohol is responsible for at least 33,000 deaths in the UK each year. including damage to an unborn child, liver disease, osteoporosis (thinning of the bones), pancreatitis, stomach ulcers, infertility, heart disease, raised blood pressure, stroke, dementia and brain damage.


    It can also lead to an increased risk of a variety of cancers, particularly breast cancer and cancer of the gullet. It is also frequently associated with mental health problems, such as depression and anxiety.

    http://www.drinkaware.co.uk/facts/factsheets/alcohol-and-your-health

    As a smoker, you're at risk for cancer of the mouth. Tobacco smoke can also cause gum disease, tooth decay .Hydrogen cyanide and other chemicals in the smoke attack the lining of the bronchi, inflaming them and causing that chronic smoker's cough. Because the bronchi are weakened, you're more likely to get bronchial infections.The effects of smoking on your heart are devastating. Nicotine raises blood pressure and makes the blood clot more easily. Carbon monoxide robs the blood of oxygen and leads to the development of cholesterol deposits on the artery walls. All of these effects add up to an increased risk of heart attack.The tars in smoke can trigger cancer of the esophagus and throat. Smoking causes increased stomach acid secretion, leading to heartburn and ulcers. Smokers have higher rates of deadly pancreatic cancer. Many of the carcinogens from cigarettes are excreted in the urine where their presence can cause bladder cancer, which is often fatal. High blood pressure from smoking can damage the kidneys.

    http://www.quitsmoking.com/kopykit/reports/body.htm

    emotions= more of the stronger emotions such as anger, sadness, and glee

    suicide is a right= suicide is wrong! it would not happen if people had help, alcohol makes only worsens their saddnes.

    society= everybody, the people around you. middle class, upper class, and lower

    taxation is needed, how else would a country stand? i would rather take alcohol and tobacco away without the taxation but that would cause an uproar.
     
  5. Jason Bourne

    Jason Bourne Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Frankly, if some imbecile wants to smoke and their second hand smoke isn't effecting others I say go ahead and risk serious medical issues. Same with alcohol. If someone is so stupid that their willing to risk their health by the abuse of alcohol have at it. As long as they don't drink and drive. Otherwise, I couldn't care less.
     
  6. Tribearer_Eko

    Tribearer_Eko New Member

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    Hitler was a smart man. i am not a nazi and i dont believe in everything he did, because he was corrupt but he did have a few smart ideas.

    what is wrong with abolishing corruption? do you think alcohol and tobacco is needed? what about drugs, are those needed in society?
     
  7. Jason Bourne

    Jason Bourne Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Since when?
     
  8. PatrickT

    PatrickT Well-Known Member

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    Of course, taxes were intended to force conformity to government dictated behavior. If the government wants you to quit smoking, buy a house, get married, have health insurance then they will force you to pay them money if you fail to comply with their wishes.

    That and everything should be banned by some level of government. Take down that flag, paint your house the approved color, don't have regularly scheduled meetings in your home, don't say that word, fasten that seat belt, pull up those pants and so forth and so on.

    Now, we will all fall out at 6 a.m. for our aerobic exercises led by Comrade Fonda or Uberstandarfuerher Ed Schultz.
     
  9. Tribearer_Eko

    Tribearer_Eko New Member

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    we're not talking about conformity,we're talking about tobacco and alcohol. i would much rather just make them illegal, and i only say tax them because it is a less aggressive reform.
     
  10. Bondo

    Bondo Well-Known Member

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    Ayuh,... So why are you so concerned about what other people are doing,....

    Other than wanting to be in Control...

    In the USA, alcohol was made illegal in the last century,...
    It didn't work out so well, did it,..??
     
  11. Tribearer_Eko

    Tribearer_Eko New Member

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    it has nothing to do with control, it has everything to do with making society better. Perhaps you just can't see that because you love your precious Rum too much
     
  12. Anders Hoveland

    Anders Hoveland Banned

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    I think smokers should be forced to pay taxes into an insurance system, somewhat similar to the American social security system. These taxes would later fund their medical treatment for lung cancer, and contribute a small portion toward any cardiovascular related medical expenses.

    Perhaps if they had to pay their medical bills for smoking now, rather than at some distant future time, they could see how expensive smoking really is.
     
  13. Tribearer_Eko

    Tribearer_Eko New Member

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    that's a good idea
     
  14. PatrickT

    PatrickT Well-Known Member

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    I love that response. And, how do you make society better? By total control and forcing people to do what you want. People in American love forcing others for their own good.

    Everyone who has ever said they were forcing me to do something for my own good, were lying.
     
  15. PatrickT

    PatrickT Well-Known Member

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    What is wrong with abolishing anything? Are drugs needed in society? Yes, they are. I had some oral surgery a few weeks ago and I needed pain pills. Of course, I realize that if you don't need them then I shouldn't have them. Do we need churches and religion>? They cause a lot of pain, misery, and corruption. Let's abolish that, too.

    Hitler had a few smart ideas. Big deal. Clarabelle the Clown had a few smart ideas. One really, really bad idea trumps a lot of smart ideas. Your lust to abolish would fall into a category of really, really bad ideas.

    Me, I don't drink. I won't help you drink in any way, shape, or form. But, if you want to, that's up to you. I also don't try to force other people to live as I wish. If you want to try, that's your business but don't expect me to help you in any way, shape, or form.
     
  16. Tribearer_Eko

    Tribearer_Eko New Member

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    when i say drugs i mean weed, cocaine, etc. some people want to legalize them. i am not against medical drugs like pain killers.
    your right one bad idea does trump several good, and I'm not saying Hitler is a genius or anything I'm just saying he was smart.
    haven't you seen how the world is falling apart? society is growing evermore corrupt, they don't care anymore. you can see this indifference in the young today, and part of that reason is that they are too high on drugs, too drunk, etc. We want to make the world a better place we have to make some hard decisions. And i couldn't agree more with you, nothing is more dangerous than a man acting under the pretense of "the greater good"
     
  17. PatrickT

    PatrickT Well-Known Member

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    And what we need is a strong dictator like Hitler, Stalin, or Maeo to whip us all into shape or else.

    Don't be silly. You're not dangerous and you're acting under the pretense of "the greater good".
     
  18. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why are you ok with pain pills that have KNOWN side effects of "tremors, delirium, severe respiratory depression, confusion or stupor, coma, clammy skin, circulatory collapse and cardiac arrest and death" but you are against marijuana that has a few side effects but none that are anywhere near those. No deaths have EVER been reported with the primary cause of marijuana use.

    I am sure you are also ok with caffeine (Insomnia, Tremor, Anxiety, Psychosis, Anxiety, Apathy, Irritability, Depression) or how about sugar! (has been proven to depress your immune system)...

    I really wish people would stop being such hypocrites. Hard drugs are one thing... Marijuana does not fit into this category.

    [​IMG]

    As for the world falling to crap because of "drugs" you need to pick up a book and see that morals have been falling since fetuses have been viewed as a "fixable problem" and the number of single parent households have skyrocketed. Most drugs use to be legal before they were illegal. You talk about "nothing is more dangerous than a man acting under the pretense of the greater good" right after you say we have to make hard choices on drugs... You really don't see the conflict of these two sentences do you?

    As for the op, i am fine with taxes on recreational drugs (alcohol, tobacco, caffeine, ect as long as they do not make the product prohibitively unaffordable. I think people should have the RIGHT to make choices that just affect themselves, however, I think they should pay more for insurances in case these actions cause health problems so other will not have to pick up the tab.

    http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002445.htm
    http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-979-CAFFEINE.aspx?activeIngredientId=979&activeIngredientName=CAFFEINE
    http://www.testcountry.org/10-important-caffeine-side-effects-that-people-do-not-think-about.htm
    http://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=000145
    http://www.saferchoice.org/content/view/24/53/
     
  19. SiliconMagician

    SiliconMagician Banned

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    I pay a hefty surcharge on my insurance premium because of my smoking. WTF else do you want out of me?

    I cost the Government nothing, my health is an issue between me, my doctor and my insurance company and the Government last I checked was not my insurance company, yet.

    People want socialized medical care but then want to dictate to people to live healthy lifestyles to keep costs down, that is simply not fair and it certainly is not liberty.

    If you don't want to pay for me and smokers health issues in the future, don't nationalize the health care system.
     
  20. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That is the problem with some people, they dont give a (*)(*)(*)(*) about your liberty as long as they can "make society better" in their eyes, right Tribearer_Eko?

    Wasn't that what Hitler was trying to do? Make society better and all that jazz...
     
  21. Tribearer_Eko

    Tribearer_Eko New Member

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    society is falling and someone needs to fix it
     
  22. PatrickT

    PatrickT Well-Known Member

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    I suppose that's part of your problem. "Someone" needs to fix it. The grand dictator. The omniscient messiah. Sorry, Tribearer, but I think you're totally off base. What we need is a culture that encourages responsibility. The culture of no responsibility perpetuated by media is ludicrous.

    Our new mantra is "It's not your fault."
     
  23. legojenn

    legojenn New Member

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    I wonder how many times prohibition of a destructive product that people want has to be attempted before people realise that banning doesn't work. Most countries have bans on illegal drugs (hence the illegal adjective), yet people still consume them. There have been periods of prohibition of alcohol in North America and that has led to smuggling and organised crime. Besides, the ill effects of cigarettes and tobacco are known to all. An addict will not quit something due to expense or legal means to obtain it.

    When it comes to overtaxation, people will find ways around it. Some First Nations reserves in Ontario, Quebec and New York are battlegrounds due to cigarette smuggling to places like Canada, and the northeastern US where cigarette taxes are incredibly high. Up here, we have high alcohol taxes and the provincial liquor monopolies that I am most familiar with are busy filling provincial treasuries. Many Canadians are not above overbuying our legal limits of alcohol on trips to the US. A one litre bottle of vodka fits nicely in a one litre water bottle, just sayin'. When it comes to some street drugs, some people are not above property crime and prostitution to fund their habit. Raising the cost will just raise the crime and prostitution.

    Tax the (*)(*)(*)(*) out of something, and they will find other means to affordably get their fix. Prohibit it, and you will create a market for organised crime. Personally, I'd rather deal with a drunk on the street and a little more income tax funding hospitals than a gangster protecting his turf, cops overreaching on enforcement or corrupt government officials capitalising on the ban.
     
  24. Tribearer_Eko

    Tribearer_Eko New Member

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    what is the reason you all so reject my reform? "Freedom"? "Liberty"?

    i don't care about control, i care about helping others. just because someone likes cookies doesn't mean your going to let them eat the cookies until the person becomes sick.
    Haven't you seen how society is starting to fall? we are becoming more vulgar, less educated, uncultured, etc.
    This is one step in helping society get back up.

    you will still have your "freedom" it's not like freedom of speech etc is being taken away. good lord it's like taking away a toy from a child and that child screaming blood mercy, even though they have many more toys to play with. Get over it.

    give me one good reason to have prostitution.

    give me one good reason for alcohol.

    or marijuana or cocaine.

    tell me why it shouldn't be abolished. don't tell me about peoples freedom of choice
     
  25. xsited1

    xsited1 New Member

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    My youngest son is 12 and he likes your idea.

    I also found this cartoon:

    [​IMG]
     

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