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Ranked Vote: How To Restore Meaningful Civil Discourse

Discussion in 'Opinion POLLS' started by Meta777, Jul 25, 2018.

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  1. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I. Fact verification methods

    With community acceptable methods of identifying the lies and bullshit of partisan propaganda of all persuasions and agendas, an enormous amount of back and forth ad homs could be eliminated.

    Speaking for myself, I find willful ignorance and utter rejection of facts to be kinda irritating. Presumably, these methods would include handling a verified lie/bullshit post in some in-thread noticeable fashion. It might also eliminate having to respond to the same bullshit numerous times as those posters with aligned partisan agendas repeat their current narrative.
     
    Jonsa, Jul 28, 2018
    #51
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  2. Honky Kong

    Honky Kong Well-Known Member

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    Feelings do NOT
    Feelings do NOT have links. So I suppose those will be banned?
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2018
    Honky Kong, Jul 28, 2018
    #52
  3. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Nonsense. Most people can discern the difference between facts, opinion and feelings. Unfortunately too many opinions are driven by factless feelings and intransigent partisan confirmation bias. If the evidence presented within an argument is a lie, bullshit or a deliberate misrepresentation and its called out by a standard method, then the "opinion" expressed is undercut and a whole bunch of incivility can be avoided.
     
    Jonsa, Jul 29, 2018
    #53
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  4. Honky Kong

    Honky Kong Well-Known Member

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    The feeling is FACT to the person. Its kind of like when someone dies and a Christian says they are with God.
    Ain't no link for that. Its a feeling. So do you ban that feeling because you can't link it? You folks are going to regulate and mandate yourselves right off this board. I myself hate to see it happen but its comming.

    Installing NEW zoning restrictions during a build is NOT a bright idea.
     
    Honky Kong, Jul 29, 2018
    #54
  5. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    Aright, so I think I've read almost every response in the thread now. And while I hear what you guys are saying about post counts, membership rates, and entertainment, I just personally prioritize things like civility and problem solving potential way above any of that stuff. To me, exchanging ideas with others in an attempt to come up with new and useful societal improvement ideas is entertainment in itself, far more so than disrespectful mudslinging. And besides that, as it relates to this forum specifically, like Falena already mentioned, a free for all zone is one idea which isn't going to fly with the owner anyways.

    So for my vote, I instead ranked high things I felt would raise the level of discourse overall. And maybe I'm biased in favor of my own ideas, but hey, what can I say, I think they're pretty good, but I do really like options S and G as well.

    E,C,I,B,S,G,A,M,D,P,L,K,J,Q,O

    E. Reduce Partisanship by Improving Our Election System[1][2-Summary]
    C. Create Focused Threads With a Clearly Defined Issue Targeted Towards Finding Solutions
    I. Agree to a Shared Set of Fact Verification Methods
    B. Avoid Binary Thinking and Partisan Finger-Pointing
    S. Add Masters Forum: An Exclusive Invitation Only Sub forum with Higher Standards for Civil Debate
    G. Create a Highly Moderated Sub-forum With Stricter Rules
    A. Focus on Discussing Issues that Matter (As Opposed to Hot Topics)
    M. Embrace Respectful Disagreement/Learn More About Your Rival
    D. Have a Sub-forum Specifically Geared Towards Discussing Ways To Improve Discussion
    P. Designate Partisan Free Threads and or Forums
    L. Label Certain Threads as Serious Discussion Where Insulting Posters Are Ignored
    K. Impose Maximum Daily Thread/Post Limits
    J. Create and Enforce Stricter Rules on the Site as a Whole
    Q. Reinstate Fairness Doctrine/Equal Time Rule for the Media
    O. Offer Individual Rights Constitutional Law Class Along Side Postmodern Civil Rights Class

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Jul 29, 2018
    #55
  6. Honky Kong

    Honky Kong Well-Known Member

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    I ask members two things at this point.
    1, Please DO NOT invite me into ANY highly restricted forum. I REFUSE bigotry by color/age/gender/gender choice/income or education.
    2, Never ask me for money to promote/propel its practice.

    Thank you

    Honky
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2018
    Honky Kong, Jul 29, 2018
    #56
  7. Aphotic

    Aphotic Banned

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    I'd be interested in joining
     
    Aphotic, Jul 29, 2018
    #57
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  8. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I tend to be able to differentiate between a fact and an opinion.

    A christian coming across a dead body saying "this guy is dead" is stating a fact.
    A christian saying "they are with god" is an OPINION, not a fact.

    Feelings are not facts no matter how closely or strongly held.
     
    Jonsa, Jul 29, 2018
    #58
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  9. jay runner

    jay runner Banned

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    The USA is polarized and divided. Meaningful civil discourse would be very bad for the USA at this time.

    Possibly meaningful civil discourse might be restored far into the future.
     
    jay runner, Jul 29, 2018
    #59
  10. Liberty Monkey

    Liberty Monkey Well-Known Member

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    You mean when mankind, sorry peoplekind is extinct lol.
     
    Liberty Monkey, Jul 29, 2018
    #60
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  11. Crownline

    Crownline Banned at Members Request

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    Internet forums are where civil discourse goes to die. You could have an Internet forum dedicated entirely to boobs and men are going to start arguing.....eventually.
     
    Crownline, Jul 29, 2018
    #61
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  12. Doug1943

    Doug1943 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A wee footnote: the distinction between ‘fact’ and ‘opinion’ is a tricky one: is it a fact, or an opinion, that government welfare encourages dependency? Or that Islam is inherently a male-supremacist religion?

    The great historian EH Carr in his excellent WHAT IS HISTORY? Makes the point that ‘facts’ are always selected by people, according to what they believe is important. His example is: it is a fact that Caesar crossed the Rubicon ... a well-known historical fact. But Caesar crossed many other rivers, and many other people crossed the Rubicon - why do we know this one river-crossing fact, and not any of the others?

    If you have a high-quality forum, l would not bother to try to distinguish between facts and opinions.
     
    Doug1943, Jul 29, 2018
    #62
  13. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yeah because meaning civil dialogue is the last thing a divided and polarized nation needs. Very bad indeed.
     
    Jonsa, Jul 29, 2018
    #63
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  14. Doug1943

    Doug1943 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I too did not get the connection between Jay Runner’s first sentence and his second. Is not the opposite meant?
     
    Doug1943, Jul 29, 2018
    #64
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  15. Moonglow

    Moonglow Well-Known Member

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    When has the society in the US ever had everyone agree in unison? I say never.
     
    Moonglow, Jul 29, 2018
    #65
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  16. Honky Kong

    Honky Kong Well-Known Member

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    By its creation we are talking forming a cyber lynch mob know as "The Masters"....Sounds right out of a KKK handbook of the 20s.
     
    Honky Kong, Jul 29, 2018
    #66
  17. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    Yep, like Falena was saying, that particular idea has been brought up several times before and that's always been one of the major concerns. Things get too heated in one forum or thread, and without moderation, feelings get hurt, stuff gets said, and next thing you know members are bringing that stuff up in other threads and in other forums. But even beyond that, I think one also has to consider exactly how something like that would improve the level of discourse for the forum overall. It certainly doesn't make discourse more meaningful or civil for those who stick to the ffa section, lol. And even discounting for a moment the potential for leakage, it doesn't really improve it for members who stick to other sections either.

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Jul 30, 2018
    #67
  18. Honky Kong

    Honky Kong Well-Known Member

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    The site has stated it is rebuilding. Rebuilding from what?
    Spam attack
    Server attack
    Massive loss of members
    What caused the NEED for a rebuild?
     
    Honky Kong, Jul 30, 2018
    #68
  19. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    Rebuild? I'm not sure what exactly you're referring to there.
    If you're simply asking why this particular thread is here, that is explained in the OP.
    Particularly note the three links near the top of the OP (right under the 6-9 image) for additional context. Also note that, as mentioned in the paragraph right below that, that the scope of the issue being discussed here goes far beyond just this site alone.

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Jul 30, 2018
    #69
  20. Honky Kong

    Honky Kong Well-Known Member

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    THE REBUILD statement came from a admin asking about awarding perks or such. And I have read this thread thank you and the Idea of "Masters" sickens me. This is not the 20s America or the 40s Germany but its trying.
     
    Honky Kong, Jul 30, 2018
    #70
  21. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    In that case, you should quote the post you're actually responding to, its simpler that way.

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Jul 30, 2018
    #71
  22. Honky Kong

    Honky Kong Well-Known Member

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    Don't know how to link on my tablet yet. I think it requires a wireless mouse. Will ask Verizon this week.
     
    Honky Kong, Jul 30, 2018
    #72
  23. Falena

    Falena Cherry Bomb Staff Member Past Donor

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    I am the only Administrator who addressed this thread. For clarification purposes I will repost the two posts I posted here to address this thread. Again, the purpose of this thread is not to restructure this site. This thread is not designed to change any format here. Its designed to gather information to improve debate in general. It is also designed to gather information for this site with regard to respectful debate and elevating the discussions.

    http://www.politicalforum.com/index...civil-discourse.538214/page-3#post-1069414014

    http://www.politicalforum.com/index...civil-discourse.538214/page-3#post-1069414171
     
    Falena, Jul 30, 2018
    #73
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  24. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    Indeed, it would likely erode and easily distract from the kind of useful, informative and civil discourse that exists here, in my estimation.
     
    Durandal, Jul 30, 2018
    #74
  25. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    Interesting idea. If you want, I can mark you down for
    S, Factual Knowledge Sub-forum for Posting Commented Source Links​
    Or just leave it as S by itself. You're choice.

    Hmm, not sure what would be gained from splitting them up, but I do like those categorizations though.

    Sunshine laws are just a set of laws which require info on certain government activities to be made open to the public.
    https://www.encyclopedia.com/social-sciences-and-law/law/law/sunshine-laws

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Jul 31, 2018
    #75
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