Every word you say is correct. But what we tend to write these paragraphs, and forget to write any about religion's role in establishing peace, in de-escalating disputes, and convincing people that whatever the economic or social disputes, 'God' does not want more bloodshed, more rape, more cruelty, more orphaned children, more burnt down villages. You cannot find a major successful peace movement without a large role played by clerics, and houses of worship in organizing, promotion, and financing. Since history mostly concentrates and documents on the wars that happen, we don't know nearly as much about the wars than nearly happened, therefore we can't credit those forces and institutions that impacted for peaceful resolutions, including religions potential role in stopping conflicts before they start. I think it only fair to write both paragraphs, if we are going to write one .
Religion is people. And people motivated by religion start wars. And people motivated by religion never stop wars.
This isn't a legitimate direction in analyzing causes of war. For example, the Israeli war against Palestine is backstopped by the Jewish belief that West Bank and Gaza rightfully belong to them due to religious history. Israel feels they have every right to the land of Palestinians and that ethnic cleansing is a satisfactory methodology for redeeming what is rightfully theirs. Considering that to be "secular interest" is probably true, as individual Israelis get significant benefit in the form of property in Palestine and they pay taxes that go to Israel. These aren't religious issues and it's possible that they are both immediate and significant. But, that is NOT what causes them to justify their acts of war and humanitarian atrocity against those they clearly see as a subhuman race - even in terms of their own laws within Israel. In general, religion is an absolute - a nonnegotiable position. That IS an obstruction to peaceful secular government. That obstruction is NEVER going to calm contentious relationships between nations. And, identifying specific conflicts as "religions" or "not religious" just totally misses the issue.
Feel free to write out those paragraphs. I don't know what information would go into such a paragraph, and I don't know how much credence to give such a paragraph until I see it. Many wars are justified by fear. Fear that a potential enemy might strike first, or that allowing a potential enemy to win a resource dispute might bolden them to escalate. Such concerns aren't really alleviated by appeals to God not wanting children hurt, indeed, they are increased. While clerics may have put much effort into such a situation, I can also see the possibility that it was more or less ineffective.
False, this is an often quoted lie, the Encyclopedia of War has no such classification and the writers have gone to great length to point that out. Unfortunately it does not stop the religious from using the lie anyway.
You are picking your motive with too much care and interpreting too narrowly. An even more basic fear, is the fear of being killed by the war, having your child or brother killed in battle. the consequences of a war lost on your land, your rights. You don't think clerics know how to exploit those fears in the pulpet in their quest to stop war?. Many wars are justified by greed, by bloodlust , appeals to nationalism. Think there is anything there for fruit of a sermon? Do yiou think it is likely the ones in favor of aggression are so much more effective, at using the same tools, and appeals to similar motives, to the same loyalties to 'God' than the ones who oppose it? That would be strange. Your imagination seems awful limited here, for a poster who I normaly see as lacking very little. It saddens me you are not interested in that paragraph.
Do you not think it interesting that Stalin opened the churches during WW2 in order to help the war effort?
I am interested in that paragraph, but I do not know how to write it, I don't know of very much that goes into it. I don't know how to string those conclusions together and I don't know how it compares to the paragraphs I already wrote. The argument doesn't seem implausible, but plausible is not enough.
99% of wars are based on power. In fact I would say they all are but I left 1% open for that odd thing that someone may bring up such as a war that's happened for love or something. Everything else is about power, even genocides are done for power. It doesn't matter what banner you put your war under it's still about power.
Maybe so but can we not again brush under the carpet a most signifant cause for war, the vicious tribalism of our species. A reading of Arthur Koestler’ ‘The Ghost in the Machine’ illustrates this in horrifying detail. His central thesis is yet to be successfully challenged.
Have you not ever sung that glorious old hymn “Onward Christian Soldiers?" Have you actually read Isaiah CH 40:V 2 ?
I did not explain myself very well. when Germany invaded the Soviet Union on June 22, 1941, it completely changed the ecclesiastical policy of the country: Stalin stigmatized the anti-Christian activity of party fanatics, churches and seminaries were reopened, religious ceremonies were encouraged, the office of Patriarch was brought back, and the church was allowed to own property. He knew the help of the Orthodox Church was fundamental, and his move showed itself to be far-sighted - the newly rediscovered freedom of cult was welcomed with enthusiasm by the faithful, as the overflowing churches for Easter in 1943 showed, and soldiers in great numbers attended religious ceremonies (even though Stalin never gave permission for chaplains to follow his troops.) https://cruxnow.com/church/2016/05/14/how-even-stalin-once-benefited-from-religious-freedom/ Partly Stalin did it to appease allied fears about the persecution of the Church but I also think that he knew the power of religion to motivate people to fight to fight in wars. There was even a story of an Icon saving Russia! https://02varvara.wordpress.com/200...-icon-of-kazan-of-the-most-holy-mother-of-god What does this tell us about religion?
The OP is SUPERFICIAL! Did more research on the topic by actually following the [1] link in Wikipedia that the OP FAILED to provide. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_war#cite_note-Axelrod,_Alan_2004-1 This is the SOURCE for the OP allegation. https://apholt.com/2018/12/26/counting-religious-wars-in-the-encyclopedia-of-wars/ In other words this Encyclopedia made no EFFORT at all to DEFINITIVELY establish what is and is NOT a religious war. To highlight this point let's look at the English Civil War. It was most definitely a religious war between Catholics and Protestants but it is treated as being a Civil War between those who wanted a Monarchy and those who did not. That link led to another which was far more DEFINITIVE. https://apholt.com/2018/11/08/religion-and-the-100-worst-atrocities-in-history/ So someone who is ACTUALLY RESEARCHING the topic of number of wars caused by religion has made the determination that religion is the DIRECT cause of 15% of all wars. That it more than TWICE the figure quoted in the OP. If one were to expand the definition of religion as a contributing factor to wars the number would increase again. One can even make a legitimate case that the WW2 war in the Pacific was a religious war since Japan was fighting for their Emperor who they considered to be a descendant of the god of their Shinto religion. That was why the Japanese were prepared to die for him which is a defining characteristic of religiously motivated terrorists. In essence theists are just attempting to whitewash their past warmongering instead of OWNING it.
Yes I pointed this out in post 31 but of course it was ignored by the OP, like much that is quoted when the source is checked it is not true.
Excellent point! While this example is not specific to your point it does highlight the role that can be played by religion in deescalating a situation that could have turned out very badly but for the role played by a particular cleric. In post colonial Africa there was a great deal of bloodshed as the formerly oppressed local tribes tried to seize control of the nation. Nigeria, Congo and Zimbabwe were some of the worst and there were butchers like Idi Amin in Uganda. Given the brutal oppression under the Apartheid regime there was every expectation that something similar was going to occur. However Bishop Desmond Tutu had an alternative solution and together with Nelson Mandela they formulated the Truth and Reconciliation Commission. The concept was that anyone who voluntarily came forward and confessed to whatever crimes they had committed under the Apartheid regime, including murder, would be granted Amnesty. This applied to all sides and all factions. It was a cathartic experience for the entire nation to learn the truth about what had been done in the name of religion because Apartheid was based upon the Christian bible. That process effectively lanced the festering hatred and racism that had been the cause of so much suffering for half a century. There was no violent struggle to take control of the nation either. Used properly religion can save lives and did so IMO in that instance.
Thanks, I had not reached your post when I replied but you are right, the source is being disingenuously misquoted.
Time and again. Pacifist theists have based at least some of their arguments for peace and justice on scripture or faith based teachings including Gandhi, and Martin Luther King, Many of the most courageous acts in the face of totalitarian or dictorial brutality have been credited to prayer and God by those are responsible . A one fairly recent example involves the disparate responses to Nazism and Hitler's brutal treatment of Jews, homosexuals, communists, etc. It is not hard to find documentation of the indifference or cowardice in the halls of the Vatican and in specific congregations throughout German occupied Europe. We have volumes of historic research into the role of organized religion in propping up, promoting, and validating Hitler's policies including the treatment of Jews. Its also not hard to find faith inspired stories of brave and often very lonely efforts to hide, protect the victims at tremendous risk with Christian clerics and congregants working with Rabbis and non-theists to move as many Jews as possible out of harms way. Religion is a sword that cuts both ways.
That just means it is about land or money. Religion is just used to justify it. Wars are fought over money not religion.
