Russia captures two Americans

And the opposite of props for you for not recognizing one of the most quotable lines in film history.

 

I never saw that movie.

 

Clearly.

 

Nor any Star Wars beyond the first, not even on TV.

OTOH I've seen ALL of Charlotte Bronte's adaptations, even the silent ones.

 

Big Bad Governments murder far more people when they are not distracted by war.

 

It was a quote from a movie, i.e., sarcasm.

 

Well actually I was making a comparison of you (based on your comment) to a Peter Selers movie character. Don't tell me you have never seen Kubrick's Dr. Strangelove.

 

Sorry, I never saw that movie. Thank god you were joking

 

Check out the movie it is a classic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Strangelove

 

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No, never, I must, but I never have

I don't like apocalypse movies and try to avoid them. It comes from seeing too much 60's sf and just getting fed up with it.

 

Yes thanks, I knew all that.

I also know that there was no need for the use of DU because we dominated the battlefield and the locals did not pose any armor threat. We used it gratuitously, exposing our troops to the dust it generates. As if they weren't exposed to enough airborne toxins from the burn pits we used.

Whether the Gulf War Syndrome resulted from DU and burn pits or the unnecessary and ineffective anthrax vaccines is another matter, but in the end it all came from the fact that our invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan were brought under fraud by Bush, Cheney & Companies.

 

Actually that's not quite technically correct.The thing is there's the process of ablation involved when DR rounds penetrate armor i.e. 'the removal of material from the surface of an object by vaporization, chipping, or other erosive process.' Yes, DE rounds are very dense/hard. But in the process of penetrating armor particulate matter from the surface of the round is separated and disbursed into the target. Of course at the same time particulates from the armor the round is penetrating is also disbursed.

The point is that to the extent this is an issue (and it's not a big issue) particulate from a DE round either;
(a) gets lodged/trapped inside the vehicle it struck; or
(b) doesn't disburse very far from the point of after impact because it's so dense/heavy.

And this last point point is very important. As you noted DE is a dense material. For that reason it doesn't/cant easily drift/disburse. DE particulate as a rule tends to fall to the ground fairly quickly and then remain localized once it does so. And the same principal applies to rounds that miss the target and bury themselves into the ground/local environment on impact. Contamination via ablation/oxidation etc has been found after impact but generally only within a few centimeters of the buried round. And given the already low levels of radioactivity found in each round unless a civilian physically picks one up and then keeps it on or near their person for an expended period of time there is little risk.

So yes, technically it does 'contaminate' the environment. It's just doesn't matter much because the contamination is both localized and very low level. So while a DE round buried 30cm in the soil below your back yard would be zero risk a 'do it yourself' DE lollipop would still not be a good idea, even if after all that the result could not be guaranteed to be life threatening.

 

The two British mercenaries were tried and sentenced to death not by a Russian court, but by the DPR. Russia has nothing to do with them. If Britain wants to negotiate their release, then they must negotiate with the Donetsk People's Republic.

If Britain negotiates with them, it means that they recognize the DPR as an independent nation and not part of Ukraine. So the fate of the mercenaries is up to the British government.

 

Nobody has done a study, but it would be interesting to know how much ablated DU falling to the soil is subsequently carried by the wind in those dust storms common in desert areas.

 

Still to be determined with regard to the Americans captured in Ukraine by the Russians is the pressure which will be brought on the US and what the US will be willing to do to get the Russians to release them.

This may not bode well for US aid to Ukraine.

Regards, stay safe 'n well.

 

I suspect the issue is that no conclusive study has been done simply because it's too hard to do so. Despite what has been reported in the media the % (as a component of overall mass) of radioactive material in any one DE round is minute to start with (at least in US rounds). Then, depending on the physical properties of the object/material being struck in the majority of cases only a small proportion of that material is going to be disbursed into the local environment to begin with (ablation etc). The rest being lodged deep in the target or some other dense physical structure - like the ground. Add in the fact that its not like DE rounds have ever been used/scattered about like confetti since they were introduced 40+ years ago, even in practice and you start to see the problem. There's simply isn't enough sample material to look for and even then? What is available is located in some very remote and unfriendly locations.

That said there are some studies that have been done on the subject in places like Bosnia/Serbia, I found them myself. You have to deep dive into Google to find them though. And while I've done that a little bit myself the 'results' (well the ones I could find anyway) were largely inconclusive/noncommittal. Again, as I noted previously its not like the stuff has been scattered all over the planet for any would be 'scientist' to study.

 

Not a lot and not quickly. Firstly, because the US like all other Western Governments is officially 'on the record' as stating that it's citizens should not travel to Ukraine in order to participate in the war. Secondly (and unfortunately for the two? men concerned) neither has VIP status in the minds of the American public and neither was acting in an official capacity i.e as an agent of the US Government the time of their capture. None of which means the US won't do everything they can legally to see the men returned to their loved ones, just that they don't buy Russia a lot of 'leverage' given their status.

 

Hi, Monash.

Thank you for taking time to comment. You may well be correct. We'll just have to see how this plays out with time. There is at least one other American held by the Russians at this time, too.

Regards, stay safe 'n well.

 

I like that, but it seems debatable.

 

And there lies the value of the PoliticalForum.com.