Sandy Hook- It's the guns fault, it's always the guns fault.

A well regulated militia is necessary, but it's the right of the who that won't be infringed?

The right of the "people", not the right of the "militia".

Yuge difference.

 

So the militia can be infringed, but the people cannot?

 

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Not really. The militia is technically defined as able bodied men aged 18-45 who are citizens or intend to become citizens. However, given that no politician's career could survive an attempt to deny rights associated with the militia from women, the elderly or the disabled, the militia realistically is The People.

 

What do you use a revolver for, killing people?

Would I ban revolvers? No, I think everyone should have all the weapons of war they can get their hands on....missiles, bombs, machine guns....

that's what the founding fathers wanted.

 

So the Constitution's meaning is, in fact, being subverted.

 

Walls are very good at keeping people in - or out.
Speed Limits are a revenue generators. They have little to do with public safety.
Tax laws are designed to allow the wealthy elite to avoid paying taxes. Surely you know that.

 

Howya figure? It doesn't say 'only'... and its US Code that defines the militia, not the Constitution.

 

I use for practice for self defense, and recreational enjoyment.


Lets try without sarcasm, for clarity.

Do you support restricting semi-autos?

Do you support restricting revolvers?

 

*you’re*

 

I think I would support as much safety and regulation as possible.

Licensing, background checks, safety tests and training. Like with cars, only more so.

To be honest, I don't like guns. If they banned them all, it'd be alright with me. I'm not sure even the police need guns, or there may be better methods for them to utilize....that should be the goal.

I don't see why anyone needs a machine gun. The whole gun culture, I find it disturbing.

Let me ask you a question....

say the founding father's came back, or there was definitive proof, that they never intended for the 2nd amendment to mean the "people", as in ordinary citizens in their day to day life, but absolutely meant well regulated militia, as in an organized and controlled army....and "bear arms" was used as was intended in those days...a military term....

would you give up your "Constitutional right" to guns/arms/weapons?

 

The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
National Guard or the Naval Militia.

 

Wrong.

 

Yes. What part of that is 'subverting' the Constitution?

 

Nope.

Though I doubt very much that anyone who opposed civilian defense would have written a Constitution at all similar to ours.

 

Why not? What would you do about it?

You don't support what the Founding Father's intended, even if it's not what you may prefer?

 

Why do you suppose they put in the stuff about militias at all?

Why not just say "All citizens have the right to possess arms for defense and hunting and whatever else they want to do with them".

That seems to be the bottom line now. Why confuse "a well regulated militia" with any and all people?

 

Do about what? Suddenly finding a note they all signed saying 'we didn't mean for all Americans to have guns' as per your scenario wouldn't change the laws that have shaped our nation and culture for the last centuries. Gun control wouldn't suddenly work here as a result of finding out the founders were actually gun controllers. I would continue to advocate for the right to access to the tools that allow me and the rest of America to defend ourselves.

Where do you think originates, as a foundation, the desire to be able to defend oneself and loved ones?

 

The goal was to avoid having a standing army (that typically leads to imperialism) by defending the nation with citizen soldiers, who worked regular jobs but were able to fight if and only if absolutely necessary.

Folks who don't live and breath warfare don't make war on peaceful neighbors, even when ordered to. But folks with adequate weaponry defending their homeland are nigh unbeatable.

 

But you'd be going against the founding father's and the Constitution...

that seems to be the number 1 no no against those who see the 2nd Amendment differently and "advocate" for things.

This whole thread started with someone going on about the 2nd amendment and that's it, end of story.

So you understand and support people advocating for things....

That's the American way.

 

But that's different than "all citizens can have arms for whatever".

It just seems obvious to me, and to many others....that's what they were talking about, the people's right to an organized Militia.

 

What about the Unorganized Militia?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militia_Act_of_1903

 

Please stop editing my comments for content. If you would like to draw attention to a specific part of what I said, emboldening, italicizing or underlining are great ways to do that without changing the context of what I said.

Please answer the question that you deleted in your response quote: Where do you think originates, as a foundation, the desire to be able to defend oneself and loved ones?

...because I can tell you, for me and most Americans I know, it doesn't come from the Founders.

 

I was looking for your opinion not a link to Wikipedia.

 

They didn't say anything at all about an organized militia. They said regulated, which we already discussed.

Organized vs Unorganized (not to be confused with disorganized- entirely different) have different meanings as well regarding their common usage in late colonial America. The militia is 'organized' when it is called to duty. Today we would call it 'activated', but back in the day, they would call it to 'organize' (as in form ranks). The unorganized militia is simply that which has not yet been 'organized' (activated).

All citizens 'can have arms for whatever' because all citizens are the militia.