Should Government Control or Outlaw Unions?

I have an absolute distrust of all centralized power including unions.

I just blame us for letting the union fail, instead of the existance of the union in the first place. I also think that between the interests of the company to make a profit, and the interest of the union membership to remain employed, you have set yourself up for success as much as possible in a self checking system.

Constitutional Republic's are not being proven as a failed experiment in this country today, we are failing the constitutional Republic.

 

But you elected a skinny fascist president (from Kenya) with a fat-assed wife who wants everyone but herself to stop consuming things.

What do you believe would happen to the economy if everyone recognized your master as the deity you believe he is, and stopped eating cheeseburgers so there would be more for her?

There's a reason *******s hate tobacco...they like to control what other people do.

There's a reason *******s refuse to ban tobacco...they like the fact that the Low Information Voter types are addicted to the crap and will pay an unlimited tax for it.

Now you people want to pretend that you have the right or even just the authority (read the constitution, you have neither) to control what a business sells and how it's employees are compensated.

Tell us, how well did central planning work for the socialist paradise, the Soviet Union? How well did the socialist wage and price controls of Nixon do in controlling inflation? And now you same people want to demand a "living wage" for the ignorant and useless.

Which will do only one thing. Raise prices to the point where the "living wage" you gave the useless isn't a living wage any more.

 

Agreed. 100%.

 

Actually, if you're not qualified to discuss simple economics you should probably just lurk, observe, and learn rather than post to tell us the depths of your ignorance.

 

Competition can be fine, but there is surely a degree or point at which even that becomes unfair and/or destructive.

Unions can/do ensure that competition remains a more positive thing, by balancing the leverage of the worker with the desires of the employer.

Neither side of the equation is perfect... but the 'balance' has many times proven to be beneficial to all parties overall.

 

Goonions only work when the government grants them a monopoly on the unprosecuted use of violence.

Creating hordes of brownshirts isn't a "check" on freedom, it's a step towards tyranny.

Or haven't you noticed the games King Obama, Fascist and Traitor, has been playing?

 

Yeah, I wish I could help others tip the scale a bit. I do believe folks get the raw end of the deal sometimes. I've actually used myself as a pawn to help others get into a position that I know they needed.

For instance, when I was at Johns Hopkins Pharmaquip, as a DME (Durable Medical Equipment) driver, there was a guy who has two special needs kids. One was in really bad shape, to the point where his son was in a wheelchair and right before I quit, his son was in the process of beginning to learn how to walk. I believe he was between 4 - 6, don't quote me on it as I'm not completely sure, but it's a moot point anyway. His wife had to stay home, in order to take care of their children. So he was the sole source of income and he literally needed the health insurance that Johns Hopkins offered in order for him to get the supplies he needed for his children.

Now, for the even crappier part. There were exactly 3 night shift (3 - 11) drivers working for this company covering the entire state of Maryland. I'm not joking when I tell you I've been on the road many of nights to 2 - 3 in the morning, knocking on folks doors. Anyway, getting out of this position was tough because we were very short staffed and a job had opened up to be a respiratory therapist. Both he and the other gentleman applied for the job, both wanting to get out of the position they were in. I didn't apply for the job, as I knew he needed it more than I did. I was even asked, by the manager of the position, why didn't I apply for the job? I told her the same thing that I just stated (More or less on the details). She told me that she would've hired me, no matter who else applied for the position.

I told him that and he told me I should've applied for the job. I told him exactly this, I know I'm not going to be at this job forever and I know you need this job. So I will work my @$$ off and continue doing my job until you get into your new position. Then I told him that once he's in his new position, I'm leaving the company, as it was simply a horrible job to work for. Long story short, I've garnered a nice herniated disc in my L4/L5 quadrant of my spine from them. I was out of work on workers comp for 3 weeks, doctor told me I was good to go back on the road. I told him I was still in pain, as it hurt even to do the dishes (Still hurts today, 6 - 7 years later). Their doctor told me it was just my muscles were tight and needed to be worked out and sent me on my way. I could've sued Johns Hopkins, but what's the point? My back's still messed up, nothing's going to change that. Unless a doctor tells me I'll be permanently in a wheelchair unless I get surgery, no one's touching my back.

Bah, if you read what I wrote, great. If not, let's just say that I'm less selfish as I may appear. I will put myself in harms way to help those who need my help the most. I'm a mere pawn in the game of life.

 

The history of unions in this country is far worse then what they do today. Wages went up in that period union or not. Hard to give them credit. They did discriminate and do horrible things to people though. It is not a history I think you would feel comfortable defending on the whole, only bits and pieces. Unions were worse in may ways then the KKK.

 

Don't be silly. Goonions exist to establish one thing, and only one thing: a monopoly on the labor market. Ergo, goonions are anti-competitive.

Goonions sure helped the workers of Hostess, didn't they?

 

No. In a forum like this, ideas that people have should be expressed openly. After all, this is not some university course we are all participating in.

Many come to these fora PRETENDING to be some "authority", when all they are is cut/paste-experts. They are smart people, but they don't come to communicate... they come to dominate the discussion (be seen as "right") in any way they can.

I've seen top-notch economic experts be against one another, so while I think it is awesome for a person to have higher levels of knowledge on a topic... I will never believe that it is essential that people be 'experts' to discuss the same.

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You're on 'ignore'. I'm tired of your STUPID insults, name-calling and irrational animus.

Bye.

 

Wait I can ignore someone? I would love to skip out on some posts. Let me know how to do that, if you dont hear back from me I figured it out on my own.

 

Under "My Control Panel", down on the left-hand side... see, "edit ignore list".

 

In order to express an idea, the socialist the Mayor was responding to had to first have had an idea. His complete failure to make even a coherent statement shows he's not ready for primetime yet.

Yep, there are those. Socialists can't find rational or even logical arguments against capitalism, so they resort to dogma.

Ah, that's always the way to avoid having to defend your positions when factually and logically challenged, dig a hole and pull it in after yourself.

How does that stop the Mayor from shredding your posts and how does that stop everyone else from seeing your arguments torn up?

The Mayor loves the ignore function. Those who use it know their arguments are weak.

For instance, the ONLY reasons goonions exist is to control the labor market. Yet you ran away from this statement of obvious fact and choose to hide in a hole. The Mayor would ask you what you're afraid of, but you're busy hiding.

 

You ever seen the Harlen County coal miner documentary?

No point in pointing fingures, but in my experience the issue of contensious labor vs management relations is driven by a culture of entitlement by management. That they are entitled to maximize profits at the workers expense. That labor has a right to what management will give them.

Labor and management are a partnership, and any starting point other then this, is asking for trouble.

Now this is where the problem starts, not saying that the unions don't have the same amount of blame that both the Isreali's and Pali's have in their conflict, but instead in continueing the fued between management and labor.

 

Obama and Bush, the RNC and DNC are all traitors to this nation, should be charged with Treason under RICO statutes, along with most of the Fortune 500 boards, and major union leadership, and when found guilty hung from short ropes and tall tree's!

 

Agreed, now why don't you explain what tail risk is to these people!

 

It's easy for someone who has the money to pay their bills while looking for work to say, but the majority of workers live paycheck to paycheck, and can't afford to quit.

 

That's why I've always made sure I had another job lined up before I quit. My wife, girlfriend at the time, and I struggled for many years and hardly saw each other for the first several years we were dating. She was a nurse and would work 7PM - 7AM while I worked 3PM - whenever. When she got home, I was sleeping. I'd wake up and go to work and she'd still be sleeping.

Life sometimes sucks. You just have to accept the responsibility and go after what you want. Don't let the world before you stop you from obtaining your dreams. Folks will try to use & abuse you to milk you for all you're worth. It's up to the individual to identify what their true worth is. That's when they will see true prosperity come into their lives. More folks like that will create a more prosperous country.

 

It will at least ensure that employers can get cheap labour such as you. You have already stated that your beliefs are not the best so I'm wondering if you have any feelings of self worth?

 

My beliefs are surely a hell of a lot better than yours. Honestly, a lot about me is a lot better than you. Go figure.

 

Partners do not shut down your shop b/c the local group is calling for industry wide striking. (Not about Harlen)

I don't feel bad for coal miners that strike and prevent others from taking that job. I dont like people who enforce their job rights with violence, trespassing and destruction or blocking of property. That is what happened in Harlen. I may check out the movie though. Do the Pinkertons ride in as heroes and start busting? That is my kind of union movie. Along the Waterfront is a winner too.

 

That's why you don't quit one job until you find another one first. Herp derp.

 

Easy to say, quit your job. But in a tight job market, with bills to pay and kids to feed and house, how many people are willing to quit even if the job site is unsafe or contaminated, or you are being treated like crap?

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Easy to say, quit your job. But in a tight job market, with bills to pay and kids to feed and house, how many people are willing to quit even if the job site is unsafe or contaminated, or you are being treated like crap?

 

it's good to hear that you have come to terms with your beliefs now. I'll just be watching to make sure you remain confident and positive about your libertarian agenda and don't start slipping toward liberalism again.
I like you because I know you are a good person who is going to get there eventually. There's been just too much good instilled in you as a child to not!

 

This thread is all over the place now and hasn't even got to the main point. The point was really only another attempt to expose libertarians for what they really are. They espouse the glories of protecting individual rights but won't stand up for the rights of workers to belong to a union.

Not a union with no power but a real union which has bargaining rights and the right to strike and real power that can be applied to bargain collectively. There's no expression of support for any of that coming from the libertarians.

As is quite predictable, people who don't belong to a union in the workplace are forced to work for substandard wages and usually harsh working conditions. And so those workers begrudge union workers who are usually working for a higher wage and who have the power to enforce their right to a safe and healthy workplace. And along with that goes a mutual respect between labour and management.

It's really just human nature for people to begrudge others for what they don't have themselves and the libertarian shows no different peculiaraities in that respect.

Again, we can safely come to the conclusion that the libertarian's agenda is not a real thing that could ever be put into practice, it's a utopian and imaginary offshoot from either liberalism or conservatism due to anger and disenchantment with the system that has treated them so badly.