Show Compassion To Animals.

Discussion in 'Animals & Pets' started by JAG*, May 25, 2020.

  1. JAG*

    JAG* Well-Known Member

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    I was raised in a time and in an area of the country where many men considered it manly to kill animals just for the sake of killing them. They called doing that "sport." And they taught the young boys, as they grew up, to do the same thing. They explained that killing animals was merely we humans "exercising our dominion", as they put it.
    `
    The results was a lot of unnecessary killing of animals (and birds) just for the sake of killing them. "Road kills" counted too. Many back then would speed up in order to "score a point" on all critters crossing the road and even score points on stray dogs and cats too.
    `
    I now see all that as wrongdoing and outright sin.
    `
    Its a blessings how the Lord changes the heart and makes us wiser and better as we read His word and get to know Him better. I found myself braking the other day so I would not hit a young squirrel that had just dashed in front of my truck. I am glad I did that.
    `
    I will never again cause any animal death or pain just for the sake of killing the animal.
    `
    I read in the newspaper, long ago, where they closed that disgraceful Ringling Brothers Elephant Show. Good. It was very painful for the elephants. I have read how they "trained" the elephants to do all their tricks and performances and the "training" involved intense pain for the elephants while they were forced to go through their routines.
    `
    No, I am not against hunting animals for food. I am against killing them only "for sport" and against killing them "just for the sake of killing them."
    `
    No, I am not a pacifist. I believe some wars are justified, for example WW II. But I believe killing and mangling up human bodies in wars ought to be the very last resort after all other solutions have been totally exhausted. "Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called sons of God", said the Lord Jesus. That means exactly what it says.
    `
    Consider this Bible verse:
    `
    "A righteous man cares for the needs of his animal." Proverbs 12:10
    __________

    On the light side:

    My wife and I love T-bone steak but we have never ate one that was still alive. This means that somebody killed the cow so we could enjoy eating T-bone steaks. We eat a lot of chickens too, but never ate a live chicken, they were all dead, so again somebody killed them so we could enjoy eating them. /Big Grin

    PS
    I generally kill all the snakes I come across, but that's because I fear all snakes, even the so-called "good ones." If I did not fear them, I would not kill them. So whither I am right or wrong on that (about killing the so-called "good snakes") I still have, in my mind, a good reason for killing them. I don't kill them "just for the enjoyment of killing." In fact I hope I never see another snake on my property. I have only killed 2 or 3 in my life and that's plenty for me.
     
  2. CKW

    CKW Well-Known Member

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    To kill something as simple enjoyment is unhealthy...sick.

    That said, I think I would enjoy hunting...the process and strategy, spending time outdoors doing something interesting sounds attractive. The sport of it I guess. lol.

    I hate venison though so someone else would have to eat it.

    I love fishing for catfish. Dont care for catfish but I can eat it it and if we have bunch then we have a fish fry.

    I love snakes!!! Please dont kill them!

    My husband lived in a town of 500 people out in the boonies and kids were paid for coyote skins and racoon and possum killing was encouraged.



    ,
     
  3. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

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    I am just a softie. My latest project is raising bluegill in my cement pond. I stocked it with river gill too small to eat right away. I also have crawdads in my filter pond and in tanks in my shed. The bluegill hit the top of the water when they see me and beg for food. Crawdads beg also and all the water creatures have personality. Don't eat my chickens ..... or goats... now I am becoming attached to fish..... Hopeless.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2020
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  4. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

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    And ain't because of religious conviction just hate to see animals suffer.
     
  5. CKW

    CKW Well-Known Member

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    I get it. When fish beg for food, as far as I'm concerned they are cuddly puppies.

    My son raised a piglet for 6 months. Three weeks ago I was scratching his back and he was grunting with pleasure. But his time was limited. Today my son brought by a bunch of meat, ham, bacon, pork chops.....
    It's going to take an attitude change to eat it.
     
  6. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

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    The best ribs I ever ate was from Bruno my uncut boar hog. He had chestnuts and acorns in his diet. I am of the opinion that if you raise an animal for food they deserve a good life. I do wonder how intelligent bluegill are. We do have wild caught bluegill , catfish and crappie in the freezer.
     
  7. JAG*

    JAG* Well-Known Member

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    Agreed.
    The actual process of hunting and killing animals in the wild is
    gruesome.

    To the best of my knowledge hunters use either rifles & bullets or
    bows & arrows. Both often deliver horrible suffering and death to
    animals. I think sudden death without intense pain for the animal
    is rare in the world of hunting.

    For example a deer is standing in the field and suddenly a barbed
    arrow plunges into his chest area and he panics and takes off running,
    later to be found dead by the shooter. The deer may have lived in
    agony for 2 or 3 hours or longer/

    As I have aged and suffered severely I have reached the point where
    I do not want to inflict suffering on any animals or humans. I have
    come to have empathy and sympathy for both animals and humans.

    Nonetheless, I fully understand all the arguments put forth by hunters
    to justify what they do. Some are:

    {1} wildlife management is morally acceptable

    {2} some animals are dangerous and need to be killed to protect humans
    and other domestic animals

    {3} some animal populations MUST be controlled by killing significant
    numbers of them.

    {4} the principle behind a slaughter house is the same principle as hunting
    {not true if the slaughter house kills without causing pain to the animals}

    _____________


    I am personally to the place in my life where I will never again cause pain
    to any animal either for food or for sport. I would kill an animal that
    threatened me or my family or threatened our house.

    Sorry. i can't help you with this one. The only good snake is a dead snake.
    I HATE snakes. I despise them. I have a strong desire to KILL them.
    But I kill them out of FEAR of them -- and NOT because I desire them to
    suffer and experience pain. I would not torture a snake. I would seek to
    crush his head {see Genesis 3:15 below}

    My view is that 99.7% of humanity fears snakes.

    Maybe Genesis 3:15 explains why humans do not like snakes?
    God said to the serpent:
    "And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between
    your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike
    his heel."__Genesis 3:15

    The "serpent" in Genesis 3:15 was most likely a metaphor for Satan
    and not an actual snake. Snakes don't talk.
     
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  8. jay runner

    jay runner Banned

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    I've always enjoyed killing, whether by sharpened point or firearm.

    But as to animals, if I gig a frog or shoot down Bambi, I got to eat at least the best parts.

    Pests and varmints like cottonmouth, rats, and coyotes, being a threat to my well being, are in a whole different category.

    Without killing for meat man never would have made it out of the cave or built civilization.

    I'm a natural born killer and I enjoy it. But life for animals is hard enough and I kill to eat them only.

    War, justified or unjustified, if the powers that be put you in it, you got to get busy killing.
     
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  9. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I would hunt for food, but not for sport
     
  10. JAG*

    JAG* Well-Known Member

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    That's reasonable.

    As an aside:
    Good lands alive! You've got 92,496 posts here.
    And 28,177 Likes.
    Those kinds of post numbers are fascinating.
     
  11. JAG*

    JAG* Well-Known Member

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    Interesting.
    You are aware that killing with "sharpened point" and "firearm" causes pain.
    What is there about killing that you enjoy?

    Who or what is "Bambi"?
    Reasonable point.
    True.
    However that does not mean that humans today have to kill animals for sport or just for the
    sake of killing them --- which is what my Opening post is about.
    I'm sorry to hear that.
    Do you think you will always be like that?
    Or do you think that as you grow older, you will come to have more empathy
    and sympathy and compassion in your heart, so that you will no longer enjoy
    killing?
    What do you think about this?
    "So in everything do to others what you would have them do to you"__The Lord Jesus
    in Matthew 7:12
    What do you think about the principle behind Matthew 7:12 ?
    You would not want any one to cause you to experience great pain, right?

    That's reasonable.
    The "powers that be" . .. that's in Romans 13:1 The NIV translates
    it as "the authorities that exist."

    World War 2 was morally justified. Old Adolph and the Nazis had to be
    stopped with the sword of The Allies --- its clear they were not going to
    be "talked out of" world domination.
     
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  12. jay runner

    jay runner Banned

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    A fishhook causes pain, lots of it. You pierce the fish, take the fish prisoner, kill it with a hammer and knife, then cook and eat it. I just got to kill, as most people do.

    Bambi is a little deer in an old Disney children's movie. When we baptize a new hunter in deer blood at hunting camp we decree to them that this is for killing Bambi.

    I'm mid-seventies and have always enjoyed killing. Maybe I won't when older.

    LBJ said go. I killed as many as I possibly could. My cousin was a much better soldier, killed many times more, volunteered for four tours in Vietnam, very highly decorated.

    Do you think they killed lambs by the thousands in the Temple in Jerusalem? They're planning the new Temple, will use DNA to find eligible Levite killers, and are planning to restore the killing spree.

    To begin to understand killing you have to read the poem Grace to be Said at the Supermarket by Howard Nemerov, Poet Laureate of the US in the 1970's. Copyrighted but easily found on the web.
     
  13. JAG*

    JAG* Well-Known Member

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    I love to eat fried fish. I have never ate a live fish, so I'm all for killing fish.

    Ah yes, "When we baptize a new hunter in deer blood" I get it. In principle its
    the old United States Marine Corps thingy of teaching the new recruits to love
    and enjoy killing. I can hear the Drill Instructor even now yelling out
    "What makes the grass grow? Blood. Blood. Blood." Its the old old
    principle of "deliberately plunging headlong" into what is ordinarily known
    to be far less than a good thing to do. New recruits arriving at Marine Corps
    Boot Camp arrive with the normal human instinct to NOT . . .KILL . . other
    human beings.

    So?

    So the job of the Marine Corps Drill Instructor is to purge that normal human
    instinct to NOT KILL PEOPLE from the hearts and minds of the new recruits
    and to REPLACE it with the love and enjoyment of KILLING other human
    beings. Therefore "What makes the grass grow? Blood Blood Blood."


    I hope not.
    A life that is characterized by love, kindness, compassion, empathy, sympathy,
    and protecting life is better than accepting and cultivating the enjoyment of
    deliberately causing pain and death unnecessarily to any living thing.

    I understand. I spent decades loving Rambo-type movies and military books
    and all things having to do with WAR and killing. I 100% totally know and
    understand what the love of war is and how it grabs hold to the human heart
    and mind.

    No doubt.

    Thanks for the tip. I already got the idea! Instead of reading a poem
    about supermarket killing --- all I have to do is merely read threads
    here inside Thread World on the Internet At Large where I see the
    never-ending hateful ugly squabbling, haggling, and bickering that
    goes on between many people in a never ending Cannibalistic Feast
    of biting and devouring one another.

    The Cannibals . . .

    Thread World The Land Of The Cannibals on the Internet At Large is
    not characterized by love, kindness, compassion, empathy, sympathy,
    and a charitable reading of each other's posts, instead Thread World all
    over the Internet is characterized by harshness, resentment, hateful criticism,
    denunciation, accusations, loathing, disgruntlement, snide and snippy
    one-liner responses to posts, direct insults, and generally unpleasant tones
    and attitudes towards everybody that disagrees with each other on most
    any subject --- in other words it is the principle of WAR inside Thread World
    most of the time.

    Jay Runner,
    From the heart, here is a prayer for you:

    May the Lord bless and keep you.
    May the Lord make His face shine upon you
    May the Lord be gracious unto you.
    May the Lord turn His face toward you
    May the Lord always bless you and give you peace
    {based on Numbers 6:24-27



    `
     
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  14. JAG*

    JAG* Well-Known Member

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    “All that is gold does not glitter,
    Not all those who wander are lost;
    The old that is strong does not wither,
    Deep roots are not reached by the frost.

    From the ashes a fire shall be woken,
    A light from the shadows shall spring;
    Renewed shall be the blade that was broken,
    The crownless again shall be king.”
    ― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Fellowship of the Ring

    __________


    “I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.
    "So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such
    times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to
    decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”
    ― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Fellowship of the Ring




    `
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2020
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  15. jay runner

    jay runner Banned

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    Numbers 6:24-27. I served a Passover as a Gentile waiter/gofor. I think that was repeated several times. I wanted to hide the Afikoman but they wouldn't let me.
     
  16. ToddWB

    ToddWB Well-Known Member Donor

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    I don't kill any animals unless they are in my territory.. Last rattlesnake I killed was heading for a friends shed, I apologised for killing it.. in fact I apologize to even spiders when I kill them in the house.. tell them they should not have trespassed. I don't hunt.. I can buy better meat for far less at the store.. I would annilate any feral hogs I spotted.. they are just too destructive to be left alone. Did ponder whether or not to kill a sick (or injured) buzzard that was on my property for a week or so.. ot put it out of it's misery, in the end I didn't figure it was my call, let nature take it's course.
     
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  17. jay runner

    jay runner Banned

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    If a wasp is in the house I capture it without harming it and release it outside. I don't love it or feel affection for it or affinity to it. I can't eat it so there's no point in making its life any harder than it has to be. It's sting hurts a little bit, but its nothing compared to a yellow jacket.

    We leave the spiders to their webs. We don't love them but one might kill and eat the very mosquito that was going to vector me some West Nile virus.
     
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  18. ToddWB

    ToddWB Well-Known Member Donor

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    I agree! I do capture quite a few little animals to deport from the house. Have yellow jacket nest all around, mostly leave them alone, honey bees get water from the leakage around the outside water taps.. I can use that tap while they are there and they never attack.

    Did watch an epic battle between and antlion and a ant the other day.. just fascinating!
     
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  19. BasicHumanUnit2

    BasicHumanUnit2 Well-Known Member

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    You are a brave man to start this topic.
    Generally speaking, compassion seems to be dwindling as a human trait and barbarianism is definitely on the rise. Just look at society.

    One in this thread was at least honest stating he "likes" to kill.

    Unfortunately, he is not alone as the number of humans who kill "for the fun of it" is huge and rising.
    I see them as serial killers who have slightly more control over themselves.
    Blood"Sports" were very popular in Ancient Rome......and Rome fell.

    Lest they be confused, I am a trained marksman with years of training and trophies from competitions.
    I'm no stranger to firearms.
    I "could" kill, but my preference is photographing wild life. It takes FAR more skill to get a close up of a mountain lion than to shoot it from a distance.
    Any fool can take a life, but only God can give it.
    I eat very little red meat. Sometimes going years without it.

    As blood "sports" rise and more kill for the fun of it, the fall of the empire looms yet again.

    Killing for fun satisfies a very primordial set of instincts. I say that as intelligence rises, the desire to kill for the fun of it decreases.
    Albert Einstein was an animal rights advocate.
     
  20. JAG*

    JAG* Well-Known Member

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    What is the Afikoman?

    Wait . . . I have google.

    Afikoman - a piece broken off from a matzo during a Seder and put aside to be
    eaten at the end of the meal. It is traditionally hidden during the Seder to be
    searched for by the children present.

    What is a seder?

    Wait . . . I have google.

    seder - a Jewish ritual service and ceremonial dinner for the first night or first
    two nights of Passover.

    :)
     
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  21. JAG*

    JAG* Well-Known Member

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    Thanks.

    Nobody has "eaten me alive" yet. Maybe later they will. :)

    I posted the following up-thread. In case you didn't see it, here it is:

    Regarding "eating me alive" :

    The Cannibals . . .

    Thread World The Land Of The Cannibals on the Internet At Large is
    not characterized by love, kindness, compassion, empathy, sympathy,
    and a charitable reading of each other's posts, instead Thread World all
    over the Internet is characterized by harshness, resentment, hateful criticism,
    denunciation, accusations, loathing, disgruntlement, snide and snippy
    one-liner responses to posts, direct insults, and generally unpleasant tones
    and attitudes towards everybody that disagrees with each other on most
    any subject --- in other words it is the principle of WAR inside Thread World
    most of the time. Not all the time, but most of the time.

    It sure looks that way. We now even have "mask wars" here inside
    Thread World on the Internet At Large. To "Mask-Up" or "Not To Mask-Up"
    is the battleground. I predict the "Not To Mask-Up" army will eventually
    win this one. There have been some altercations in stores over people
    refusing to wear masks.

    I hope not. I don't have any stats on it so I don't know.

    Yeah. I saw the film Gladiator years ago. No more interest in such as that.

    Noted.
    I understand.
    Agreed.
    Okay.
    Not to be disagreeable, but I am a very much a long-term optimist
    about the future of Christendom and the Human Race. As a good
    Bible believing Postmillennialist I know the future is going to be
    all good.

    Here is Dr. Kenneth L. Gentry's definition of Postmillennialism:

    "Postmillennialism holds that the Lord Jesus Christ established His
    kingdom on earth through His preaching and redemptive work in the
    first century and that He equips His church with the gospel, empowers
    her by the Holy Spirit, and charges her with the Great Commission to
    disciple all nations. Postmillennialism expects that eventually the vast
    majority of men living will be saved. Increasing gospel success will
    gradually produce a time in history prior to Christ's return in which faith,
    righteousness, peace, and prosperity will prevail in the affairs of men
    and nations. After an extensive era of such conditions the Lord will
    return visibly, bodily, and gloriously, to end history with the general
    resurrection and the final Judgment after which the eternal order
    follows."

    Agreed.

    Noted.

    BHU, thanks for dropping in and for all your comments -- much
    appreciated.


    `
     
  22. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The human enjoyment of killing makes evolutionary sense. Evolutionarily speaking, humans are not long removed from an environment where killing was necessary for survival. And it should be no mystery why those that enjoy a thing would be better at that thing than those who do not enjoy it. To put simply: those who enjoyed killing at an instinctual and genetic level were more likely to pass on those genes.

    But humans are also capable of reason, empathy and restraint. Just as the instinctual drive to reproduce doesn't excuse rape, neither does the instinctual drive to kill excuse doing so wastefully.

    Another skill that makes one human more successful than another is the ability to channel ones drives constructively. There are places within our society where killing is constructive and even necessary.

    At the very least, humans that kill for enjoyment alone and no other purpose are exhibiting wastefullness, unrestrained emotion, a lack of reason and a lack of empathy, even if they're doing so lawfully. However, if they are finding a way to channel their killer instinct into an activity that is demonstrably constructive, I consider it admirable. Some examples of constructive killing-
    -food
    -pest control
    -hunting/conservation
    -defense

    The constructive benefits of conservation I think are particularly subjective. Hunting permits fund conservation. However, so could donations. But then again, those who oppose hunting do not donate nearly as much to conservation as hunters pay in permit fees.

    All that being said, I am not eager to track a deer or elk through the woods, kill it and haul its meat to my house. But I would very much like to fill my chest freezer with nutritious delicious wild venison. Its therefore likely that I stand to benefit from someone elses driven desire to kill things.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2020
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  23. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, and it's also SICK. It strikes me as a reflection of a personal sense of inadequacy and low self-esteem.
     
  24. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And what do you think they do with all those elephants??

    Probably sent them off to the glue factory.

    You people ignorantly want to imagine all these animals are sent off to some happy zoo once they are "liberated".
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2020
  25. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    How about if they are only killed for sport if the hunter is also planning on eating them?

    Are you against fat people who consume an excessive amount of meat?
     

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