So how is Bernie going to get them to do that

Disinvolve government bureaucrats who add little other than costs and I'm not talking just the feds either.

 

We're already doing that. It's called medicare or Medicaid. Most the newly insured under ACA were people who would have already qualified for Medicaid but had never filed for it because they were single 20 to 30 year olds most of whom tend to think themselves immortal.

 

Again we are not other countries.

 

Have you ever look at the sheer number of rules and regulations in place just by the federal government? Now add to that the fact that cities and states are often playing the same game.

 

But we do need some rules through. Do you want nurses treating people without washing their hands?

 

No and in any well run modern hospital with or without government rules that would be a firing offense. And would that such common sense stuff were the only rules we had.

 

In my personal opinion, the cost of healthcare is aligned with the technical advancements and education of physicians which costs an extraordinary amount of money. We are keeping people alive longer than any time in human existence as a result of these efforts. These efforts cost money.

The people responsible for keeping people alive longer expect large wages. You want doctors and medical equipment manufacturers to work for pennies so you can afford the product they offer?

You get what you pay for. Forcing people to negate profits or reduce wages to facilitate your expectation of what is affordable to YOU. Clearly, if they are making the wages and profits you claim they are, people are willing to pay for the services they are offering. You just feel entitled to their efforts at the price you think is acceptable.

I don't really want to have a procedure in Mexico. Do you?

Actually, President Trump passed a law that requires hospitals and specifically Emergency Rooms to post the cost of each service. The cost of services in hospitals are inflated because those same hospitals provide services to people that CAN'T or WON'T pay, which requires that people who are paying pay more. Plus, those costs you are listing are not the prices negotiated by Health Insurance providers who pay much cheaper prices.

I disagree. Funeral homes get to charge whatever the market dictates too... and they aren't going to see a shortage of people dying because it's expensive.

You feel entitled to the services other people offer at a price you think is acceptable. I am not sure where this entitlement mentality comes from. Nobody owes you anything.

 

lol... they can afford to spend 400 billion on healthcare because they spend only 50 billion on defense, which is precisely my point.

We spend 1.38 TRILLION on Medicare and Medicaid... our military spending is less than half that at 639 Billion.

Multiple sources say that Medicare for all, or Single-Payer would cost between 28-32 Trillion for 10 years or 2.8 Trillion per year.

If we took every single dollar from the military and gave it to Medicare for all, every last cent... basically no military, you still couldn't cover the cost of single-payer. You would be short about 800 Billion dollars annually.

 

Funny thing is that Americans actually live less long than in other developed nations and keeping people alive longer can't be the reason our healthcare is so expensive. On that note, I do believe we should provide a lot more options for doctor assisted suicide. We should also have public health insurance not cover some of the more expensive things, requiring supplemental private insurance for that.

I am not suggesting that we pay doctors anywhere minimum wage, or that there be some sort of wage rationing. I'm suggesting that we give more people to opportunity to go to medical school, and see where wages naturally go with the free market. Hopefully they will fall significantly, and if they do then that is what the market wants, and that is perfectly fine with me.

I put forward the argument that our healthcare is overpriced and you didn't directly address that. In essence I am claiming that in addition to other factors that make our healthcare expensive, healthcare providers are overcharging people simply because they can get away with it. For example, think of Martin Shkreli who jacked up the price of a life-saving drug to sky-high levels. He would have gotten away with it too if he hasn't gotten so much media attention. This is just the tip of the iceburg and there are thousands more examples.

On the topic of Mexico, if you go to a nice place, you can actually get really good care for a great price. My uncle, a doctor himself, went to Costa Rica for major dental work and got a great deal. Part of the reason prices are so low there is because wages are low, which isn't an option for us. But it isn't just Mexico that is cheaper than us, it is literally everyone.

 

All that is fine as long as the government isn't involved. We don't have the kind of government "other developed nations" have.

 

In other developed countries, the government is actually more involved. There is no country on the planet where the government isn't ever involved. Other countries at least have basic healthcare quality regulations, public healthcare for veterans, public healthcare for the elderly, or public healthcare for the very poor.

 

Government and healthcare are usually two separate issues but in America you are correct. Healthcare lobbies control the government in terms of healthcare for it’s citizens and the government acts in the best interest of the providers not the consumers. Probably why we manage to have the least efficient healthcare system in the developed world.

 

We have the least efficient health care system in the world for a multitude of reasons most having nothing to do with providers and everything to do with a system that is more geared to law suit prevention than treatment.

 

Wrong. Malpractice is a tiny percentage of actual cost. Nobody believes that old attempt to blame lawyers anymore.

 

It is a tiny percentage because of defensive medicine otherwise known as lawsuit avoidance. Note that word avoidance. Hospitals spend a lot of money a on advanced CYA.

 

Always good to assume something and pretend it is a fact despite no actual evidence to support the position.

 

It's what the doctors and nurses at my church tell me.

 

Wow proof by supposed anecdotal evidence. We are amused!

 

One very incomplete JAMA study suggests roughly 46 billion a year but the study itself has serious flaws that could lead to a serious understatement of costs.

 

An incomplete study with serious flaws is your supposed evidence. Could hilarity have been more appropriate?

 

The serious flaws almost certainly guarantee an under scoring of the cost.