So much for Obama bringing the deficit down

Discussion in 'Budget & Taxes' started by Arphen, Sep 24, 2014.

  1. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    It will never be straightened out until the size, power, and cost of government starts shrinking.

    Note that no Republican is calling for even a slight real cut. Has the voting public noticed? They better hope they haven't.
     
  2. Reinvention

    Reinvention New Member

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    Well Kasich was the chair of the budget committee the only time in recent history that their was ever a budget surplus and we paid down a half trillion in debt during that time. It will take time to pay down the debt but it can be done.
     
  3. Reinvention

    Reinvention New Member

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    I don't think you get my post. I am making a contrast between the way that the government squandered the 17 trillion on entitlements and other programs and the possibility of having had something tangible worth 17 trillion to show for our debt.
     
  4. Ndividual

    Ndividual Well-Known Member

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    Per the 2012 data provided by the IRS, the top 25% of returns reporting income greater than $73,354 paid an average of 16.4 cents per dollar earned with the top 1% reporting income greater than $434,682 paid an average of 21.0 cents per dollar earned. The bottom 75% of returns reporting income less than $73,354 paid an average of 5.8 cents per dollar earned, while the bottom 50% of returned reporting an income of less than $36,055 paid an average of 3.3 cents per dollar earned.
     
  5. Phoebe Bump

    Phoebe Bump New Member

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    How do tax cuts for the rich shift more of the tax burden to the rich? That's what we in the logic business call a non-sequitur.
     
  6. Phoebe Bump

    Phoebe Bump New Member

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    Obama HAS cut Bush's deficit in half. But as long as there is ANY deficit, even $1, there will be an increase in the DEBT. Are we understanding that now?
     
  7. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Bush's and the Republicans last deficit was $161B, when did the deficit hit $80.5B?

    And what specifically did Obama do that you are claiming caused the Obama/Democrat deficit of $1,400B, that they took it to from that $161B in just TWO YEARS, to fall to the $500B it has fallen?
     
  8. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    They don't, your envy of them notwithstanding. They pay higher effective tax rates, they pay higher marginal tax rates, they pay higher earned income tax rates, they pay higher unearned income tax rates.

    And they paid more at the lower Republican tax rates than the higher Democrat tax rates.

    So if you want to make it "even" how about everyone pay the same tax amount to the government each year? Or raise the taxes on the middle class to the same as they higher earners.
     
  9. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    While I believe total government spending needs to come down, that is not required to balance the budget. The simple way is to simply expand the economy, grow the workforce and increase tax revenues while keeping spending growth BELOW revenues growth. It worked in the late nineties and were on track to do it again until the Democrats took control in 2007.
     
  10. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    again with the envy lies, why do you need to resort to bearing false witness? do you not believe in the bible?
     
  11. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    It's called historical reality. Remember Bush cut taxes for EVERYONE including taking millions at the bottom of the tax rolls altogether. Then with the lower rates more investment was made and the economy expanded and the higher earners paid more in actual tax revenues and that shifted more of the tax burden onto them.

    The left repeatedly, even after shown over and over the evidence to the contrary, that higher rates will automatically produce higher tax revenues and lower tax rates will produce lower tax revenues. Doesn't work that way and in fact we collected double the capital gains revenues at the Bush 15% rate than at the Democrats 29.1% rate. Clinton also raised taxes and the rate of growth of tax revenues, already growing strongly when he took office, fell from 9% down to 7%. Gingrich and Kaisch forced him to sign tax rate cuts and revenue growth got back on track and hit double-digit.

    And along with that there was HUGELY more economic activity, that means they invested their money and that created jobs and kept people working and even wages and salaries went up.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Well what else is it. You have admitted you don't care about the actual tax revenues being collect, you just want to get the rich and take more of what they have because you don't have it.

    It's the only argument you make. Else explain why you want higher tax RATES on the higher earners even though historically it would produce less tax revenues.
     
  12. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Democrats happen. Especially when you run on raising taxes.

    The opposition needs to have a far more appealing platform that will offer real cuts and real tangible rewards for voters.
     
  13. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Oh I agree totally. I am a Kasich supporter but his chances are not likely now, but then even the political pundents seem to be giving up on predictions :wall:
     
  14. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    We are now well into uncharted political waters. The old ways are getting very old very fast. Kasich is trying to get out of the GOP box, he has nothing to lose.

    As you know, I think he should order his campaign geniuses to craft a plan for budget cuts big enough to generate an irresistible rebate to the voting public. Would the MSM/DP scream bloody murder? Sure they would - perfect. Feel free to share all this with Kasich the next time he buys you lunch. ;-)

    Of course, there may be another way - count on Schmidt or Murphy to find it. ;-)
     
  15. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Kaisch hasn't changed anything about himself and he is tried and true Republican and will remain one.

    And bore people to death. He has the proven record of successful accomplishment, who else running has ever balanced a budget. He certainly has a better record, to say the least, than Sanders or Clinton.
     
  16. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like a winner. Good luck.
     
  17. Phoebe Bump

    Phoebe Bump New Member

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    I guess we're living in different realities. What I remember is the condition of the economy when Bush took office and when he left it. That's a whole lot different than your story.
     
  18. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Which is an intellectually shallow remembrance. But let's do remember the economy was sinking into recession when Bush took office and sank into that recession within weeks of his taking office. But the fact remains Presidents do not control economies, they can affect economies with their policies or lack thereof. The party in majority control of the three entities, the House, the Senate, the White House have the majority control and will dictate what polices get passed or don't get passed That doesn't reboot with a new President necessarily.

    And the fact remains Bush/Republican policies helped to mitigate the damage done during that recession and then helped kick us into 52 months of high gear. Democrat policies starting in 2007 did nothing to mitigate that recession and in fact kept us from transforming into a full recovery for these last 7 years.
     
  19. Cordelier

    Cordelier New Member

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    Kasich is the Jon Huntsman of this election cycle - solid record as Governor, everything he says makes sense.... but a total non-starter in the campaign. Campaigns are about theater, not governing. Circuses, not bread.
     
  20. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Well it's going to take an awful lot for him, too bad with his record.
     
  21. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Trump is a game changer. IMO, the GOPe will have to have a game changing strategy to beat a potent populist autodidact like Trump.

    As you know I favor a money back for cuts approach.

    But the GOPe has "experts" who are paid 7 figures to come up with ideas far better than mine. ;-)
     

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